(Actual episode page)
This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.
Hello and welcome to I Don't Speak German, the anti-fascist podcast in which I, Jack Graham, and my friend Daniel Harper have conversations about the far right's conversations. Every episode comes with a big content warning.
And here we are with episode 42. It's the meaning of life. A lot been happening lately, a lot been happening lately [laughs] in the world of nazis. The mall's worst store, World of Nazis.
What do get when you multiply six arrested basement dwellers by eight.
Uh... exactly, yeah. I'm not good enough at maths to get that joke. Um, pop culture references I can do, maths I can't.
But yeah, here we are. Episode 42. And, yeah, lot been happening in the world of nazis, and we're not going to – again, we're not going to talk about it. Not this week anyway. We've made – we kind of have to apologize to you, listeners, at least those of you who follow us on Twitter. Because we have made various promises about what's next [laughs] for the last little while.
Oh, next episode, we've said confidently, is going to be this, and next episode is going to be that. And we've kind of reverted to our original plan except that it wasn't going to be this and it was going to be the one before this one, I don't know, and we are going to be talking, a little bit informally today, about Augustus Invictus – who was in the news. About ten years ago, it feels like.
Yeah. [laughs] Three weeks ago he was arrested, and it's like, oh yeah, we should totally do that on the next episode. And then the world blew up. That's kind of what happened.
It's been glorious. We're not going to cover any – we are not a news coverage podcast, we are a –
It's a good thing really isn't it.
Slow but steady wins the race, is kind of how I treat this podcast. [laughs]
Our goal is to be kind of slow and thorough, although we're not necessarily – it's complicated. Doing Augustus is complicated. Anyway. We'll get there. We'll figure it out.
One aspect of all the stuff that's been going on lately has been a fair amount of Cantwell News. But I'm afraid we're not going to be covering that this week either. Although we do have something special lined up for you, hopefully next week, where we – maybe Daniel and I, possibly Daniel and somebody else – are going to be covering the Cantwell News. So we're excited about that.
Indeed. And just – by the time this episode comes out, I will most likely have the episode – I recorded an episode on Jared Holt's Shitpost, alongside a very prominent person who you are very likely to know if you listen to this podcast and if you follow my Twitter you probably have already seen. [laughs]
And, yeah, we covered a little bit of the Cantwell News but, believe me, there is much, much, much more. You're going to want to tune in for the next episode.
This one is boring, don't – just tune out and just in to the next one.
Yes. Skip this one. Don't listen to this one.
No-one needs to hear this one.
Yeah. It's rubbish. Just come back next week for the Cantwell News because... holy shit. [laughs]
[laughs] Just briefly: he finally filed the bullshit filing that he had to do for this legal case, which was just a document in support – in opposition to a motion that affected another person. And he wrote three hundred pages and thought he was going to overturn this entire fucking case. And I'm pretty sure the judge glanced at it and then sent it to the trash can.
This thing this guy spent presumably weeks developing made no – like, the decision had basically already been made by the time he even filed it, so – good on you, Chris, waste as much time as you choose to on nonsense.
This is the legal filing which, if you follow me on Twitter, included a quote from Hitler, credited to –
– "a famous twentieth-century statesman". So in case you were worried about what the legal acumen of Christopher Cantwell is, that gives you a clue.
And then on a completely seperate legal thing that's happening to Chris Cantwell, he got arrested for threatening a fucking nazi. And trust me, we're going to deal with all of that next week.
Yeah, this is just a trailer.
This is just the trailer for all the bullshit, all the bullshit that – believe me, if you were wondering where your Cantwell News went, you'll get it next week. It's going to be the pure mainline stuff.
Yeah. We're going to inject it into your ears, listeners.
We're going to inject it into your veins, or... you can just boof it. That has particular relevance to Cantwell, which we're just going to leave there... so, yeah, next week. Get ready for the Motherload Cantwell News.
Yes indeed. And all sorts of other stuff going on in the world of nazis and those who oppose them, or supposedly oppose them, and we are hopefully going to be covering lots of complex and delicate and fascinating stuff about that at some point in the future, but we have to a bit general and non-specific about that at the moment. But do keep your ears open for forthcoming podcasts.
But this is episode 42 and this is Augustus Invictus. I think nothing else preliminary we need to cover before I ask you – who is, what is... I don't know, tell me about Augustus Invictus.
Augustus Sol Invictus, not actually Roman emperor – kind of sees himself as a bit of a Roman emperor. He is a – god, so much here.
One of the issues that a run into with a lot of these guys is, they have this kind of extended history that they scrub from the Internet, and so you kind of find it in little snippets, little bits and bobs, with news stories from prior to the time that I started following them, and kind of prior to this stuff existing on the Internet, and – you know, you really only get kind of little bits and pieces.
I try to have something like a good sense of who these people are in some sense of the history before I come on here. And it's been really difficult with Augustus Invictus just because he, more so than even a lot of these other guys, is very aware of his image and is very aware of his ability to mask himself behind other kinds of movements and other kinds of ideologies. Although it's kind of unclear to say, like, maybe he believes a certain thing at a time and then kind of progresses, or maybe he was hiding.
And so, more so even than someone like Andrew Anglin, it's really difficult for me to get a clear picture, and to say definitely I have a really good sense of where he is.
His actual ideology is kind of – there's some question marks on this for me. But I feel comfortable talking in generalities about who this guy is and where he comes from.
Invictus is someone who – he has been on my radar for a while, and we were going to cover him eventually, and then he got arrested at the end of – on December 30th, 2019, and then he was released in the first couple of days of 2020. It was originally broken by friend of the pod, Nick Martin, who has written extensively about me, who hypothetically will be coming on the show at some point in the future –
He has an open invitation.
I also want to be clear – something I get a little bit of criticism for in doing this podcast is not talking about the personal lives, not talking about allegations of abuse and sexual assault and those sorts of things in some of these figures' pasts, and in some of these figures' current circumstances.
I want to be clear that's not out of a lack of willingness to delve into those topics, and not out of a lack of taking those topics seriously, as much as – I don't want to give these guys the excuse that I'm covering that as a way of smearing them. As opposed to talking about the very public things that they actually say and believe.
Maybe some times I err on the side of caution on that. Maybe some times I should highlight some of that a little bit more. But it is kind of one of those things – it's kind of a decision that I've made in terms of how to cover these guys. It's that I mostly talk about ideology and about their public lives, as opposed to the other stuff that I might be able to cover.
I go out of my way to be overly fair to these guys. And so –
I'm outraged that you face criticism, to be honest. How dare people criticize my talent.
You come on here and do it. [laughs]
I'm joking. I'm joking.
Obviously I'm always welcoming to criticism to that regard and I do take that seriously.
Absolutely. Yeah. Pay no attention to my stupid jokes. We're always ready to hear when we're doing it wrong.
Right. Absolutely. And, you know, also praise. Always nice to get praise.
Obviously we make mistakes in terms of how we cover these – in terms of the tone that we reach. I get enough of that to know that there are people paying attention to it, and people care, but honestly I don't, you know – most of the time people think we hit the right tone here. Or if they don't think that we do, I don't get a ton emails in that regard.
But I do sometimes get people saying, hey, why didn't you cover the fact that this guy has child pornography. That sort of thing.
So the proximate reason that we're covering Augustus Invictus is, uhm, he was arrested... for threatening and kidnapping his wife. And I actually have the arrest warrant up here, and I'm going to just read a bit from the warrant, just to give you a sense of what this looks like.
"The defendant" – and this is all legit obviously, he has not been convicted of this. There is the [laughs] – the joke Augustus Convictus around this, which –
– Hillary Sargent, friend of the pod, may or may not come on at some point, who is delightful and you should follow her on Twitter –
We'd love to you have you, Hilary.
We've had this conversation, anyway... she's great.
She came up with that one and I told her publicly I was going to steal it. So I'm stealing it. And so therefore she doesn't have it anymore. I now own it. Like the white man that I am. [laughs]
That's primitive accumulation. The basis of all rights.
So, reading through this arrest warrant. "The defendant did willfully and unlawfully violate [inaudible 11:55] yadda yadda, "domestic violence of a high and aggravated nature. The defendant did this between 12/12/2019 and 12/18/2019 by striking and" – and then that's redacted – "with his hands and fists and threatening to shoot her if she did not listen to him. The defendant demonstrated extreme disregard for human life by pressing a firefarm to her head while beating and threatening her. The defendant also forced the victim to travel to Florida with him against her will and is also charged with kidnapping. After the assault, the defendant took the victim's cellphone to prevent her from calling law enforcement. This incident did occur at" – and then there's an address within the city limits of... yadda yadda, South Carolina.
Okay, so... yeah, if he likes Latin let's stipulate that this is sub judice. But, yeah, what a piece of shit.
There are also allegations previously of him essentially – back in 2017, bringing on young women into his life – by young women I mean very young women, teenagers – bringing them into what amounts to a sort of abusive sexual relationship between him and – aside from his wife.
Look, far be it from me to criticize people's consensual sex lives. You know, whatever you choose to do I'm certainly not going to get in the way of that. But if you're grooming young women, and doing this without the consent of your partner, and essentially raping young girls – that goes beyond the sense of what we would consider reasonable sexual adventurism here.
And, now, those things –
Kink we don't have a problem with. Crime we do.
Right. Those things have been alleged.
So far as I know there is not any kind of legal proceeding against him.
Again, this is something I would normally elide from the podcast. Again, less out of a desire to whitewash or to say that's not important as much as – it is an allegation and there's not much I can do about it except kind of report that there is an allegation.
But in light of this current, essentially, kidnapping his wife and putting a gun to her head... she eventually escapes and then travels back to South Carolina and calls the cops, and then he gets arrested.
All of this... there are a lot of details that are still very fishy on this. There are questions about whether she is actually a white nationalist herself and to what degree she is involved in all this. I have no idea what the real story behind this is.
But this is sort of the proximate reason that we decided to just go ahead and cover this guy now. He's always been on the shortlist of people who it's important to cover, and we just decided to go ahead and do it and then the news got away from us. [laughs]
Yeah, you know, it's not our usual thing to talk about this stuff... but, you know, I think it's good to acknowledge that this subculture is absolutely rife with the abuse of women. And it doesn't make any difference what these women's politics is, it's still disgusting.
No, absolutely. I wasn't trying to pretend it would be fine if she was a white nationalist.
No, I know you weren't. Just stating our position as a podcast, you know.
Yeah, no... to me it's unclear exactly what was going on there and why this is happening. Augustus Invictus is probably closely affiliated with some of the people who have been arrested in the last couple of weeks. We'll get to that as we talk about who this guy is, but... there's a lot that's still up in the air on this. There is a degree to which, you know, it's uncomfortable covering this in any kind of detail at this point.
So, who is Augustus Invictus.
Born Austin Gillespie –
I'm going to go and time it and see how long it took to actually start answering my question.
[laughs] A long time. Long damn time. That's how we do things here. Completely disorganized.
As we say: slow, but we get there in the end.
We get there in the end. That's where it goes. [laughs]
He was born Austin Gillespie.
At some point he renamed himself Augustus Sol Invictus.
Augustus Sol Invictus is Latin for majestic unconquered sun in case you are curious how this guy feels about himself. [laughs]
There is not a whole lot of information about him until about 2013.
In 2013, he – we know he went to law school. We know he was considered bright. He graduated near the top of his class.
He was this kind of libertarian douchebag.
We know that there was a piece by some of his fellow law school students, talking about – yeah, there is just this weird guy who is talking about eugenics and publishing pieces that are sort of advocating for eugenics.
Invictus kind of claims, no, I wasn't advocating eugenics, I was making a legal argument about how eugenics should – the end of eugenics was a sign of the fall of the United States. We stopped reaching for a greater man and a greater sense of humanity and this kind of strong, muscular, aggressive approach to the world, and we started worshipping weakness, [since] we stopped being openly eugenicist.
Which gives you some sense of where this guy was even back in 2013, 2014.
So... arguing for eugenics, basically?
Arguing for eugenics, right. But his claim is, I'm not saying that the US should actually endorse a policy of eugenics in the modern day, I'm saying it was a real failure of imagination, of our culture, when we stopped doing eugenics back in the day. You know, clearly that's a different thing.
I'm not saying it's good, I'm saying that not doing it is bad.
Right. Not doing it was bad when we stopped doing it. So, yeah.
When you understand that level of sophistry you get a sense of the way that Invictus talks in a lot of his interviews. He is actually a lawyer and he splits hairs like the best of them. He's very good at that. He's very good at playing that game, at engaging in that sense of plausible deniability.
If you did listen to this podcast you will find many many things to criticize me for already.
But thankfully he is behind bars and will very likely not get out any time soon. So I don't have to worry too much about that.
I don't you know, if Augustus Invictus decides to sue me, you know... I have a feeling we'll find a nice crowdfund that will solve that problem for us.
So he graduates law school. He's kind of known as being this controversial figure. And then he comes out, about 2015, he announced his candidacy for the US Senate, under the Libertarian Party banner. He announces his candidacy in 2015, running for election in 2016. And now, running in the primary for the Libertarian Party ticket for US Senate... this is not exactly the way to win an election necessarily. [laughs] In fact he loses the primary. By a landslide.
By about seventy-five [to] twenty-five, something on that order.
But this is kind of his stepping on the stage of public policy, kind of making a name for himself. You can find videos from that time. He does have a couple Youtube channels that still exist, and he has kind of reuploaded stuff over to Bitchute and that sort of thing.
One of the key events of that is, he has a video entitled Who do we shoot?, and this is him speaking at – looks to be kind of a bar, kind of stand-up or something of that nature, talking about the need for revolutionary violence against the state. This is the kind of an explicitly libertarian angle, as opposed to an overtly fascistic angle.
In interviews around this time, and we'll get to this in a second, he claims to have not ever heard of the neoreaction movement, he's not familiar with the terminology.
But he speaks very clearly in those same kinds of terms.
He speaks in terms of freedom, this kind of right-libertarianism, this kind of Rothbardian vision on economics. He's also clearly in favor of eugenics. He believes in race science. He's got a lot of those kinds of things lined up behind him. And so it's very clear, looking at him in 2015, that he's very much poised to be that kind of typical alt-right guy.
Yeah. He's a member of a species with which I have some familiarity. [laughs]
Yes. Notably about Augustus Invictus, and this comes up here a little bit later: he's also someone who has eight children.
I believe two of [them] are adopted. But he does have eight children, and they are Hispanic children. His wife if Hispanic. And so despite being an overt racist and racialist, he is [laughs] a quote-unquote race mixer by the standards of these figures. Again, believe me, this is going to come back to haunt him when we get to his... more modern pursuits, shall we say.
So I'm cursorily looking back through the history on this guy in preparation for the podcast, because he is someone who I've been aware of since I started following this stuff. His name kind of gets floated around. He does do guest hosting bits. He has his own podcast, he had a couple podcasts. He has his own history with this stuff.
But I did look back and the earliest guest appearance that I managed to find was – he was on episode 44, very early, in Christopher Cantwell's podcast history.
And at that time, that's when – it's funny to listen to Christopher Cantwell back in 2015 because he was so much more cogent and reasonable back when he was a libertarian, and before he was completely crushed by everything else in his life.
Despite the back that he's speaking libertarian nonsense, he hadn't [yet] devolved into baby talk and wild conspiracy theories.
Yes. But Invictus definitely comes on in these – and Cantwell asks him, so, you have things like the [fascist] imagery [in your campaign material], are you a fascist? And Invictus is like, no no, I don't consider myself a fascist, of course I'm not a fascist. I'm a libertarian, I believe in freedom.
And Cantwell is like, why, you have – he has the fasces in some of his campaign literature and in some of the imagery on his web site, et cetera. [Invictus replies,] yeah, that imagery dates back to the Romans and it's part and parcel of even US [symbolism]. It's on our money, it's part of our own iconography. We're using it in the same way. We're harkening back to the Romans and not to Mussolini's Italy or Hitler's Germany or anything like that.
A while later, a year or two later, he's a little bit more explicit in allying himself with some of the guys at the Daily Shoah. He's spending a lot more time hanging out in these kind of explicitly fascist spaces. I think he still distances himself slightly from calling himself an overt fascist. But he's certainly an overt racist, and he's certainly someone who believes that public policy should reflect quote-unquote racial realities and that sort of thing.
So whether or not he calls himself a fascist is kind of an academic question to me. I mean he's part and parcel with this movement. There does seem to be a little bit of a shift, ideologically, between 2015 and 2016 or 2017, at which time he's a lot more overtly part of this movement.
He was a scheduled speaker at Unite the Right on August 12th, 2017. That's the big Charlottesville rally, for anyone who isn't [as] intimately aware as I am. In fact he was present at the August 11th torchlight rally, at which multiple people were assaulted. He was carrying a torch at the time and for a long time he had a video of that incident posted on his Youtube channel. That has since been deleted, but as we say regularly on this show: it would be a shame if someone managed to archive that.
[laughs] After Unite the Right, he kind of drifts around a little bit. He is, again, a practising lawyer, although one of the things that you sort of hear a little bit here and there is that some of his law licenses – you do have do kind of renew those state by state – his is licensed in a handful of states. He did some legal work for some of the people who were charged after Unite the Right, but he didn't have – he wasn't licensed to practice in Virginia for instance, and so he wasn't able to directly cover those things.
But he's started something called the American Legal Defense Fund, the ALDF. This was designed to be something that could solicit donations from other white nationalists, from nazis, as a way of covering legal costs for people who ran into legal trouble saving the white race or whatever.
So far as I know no of these funds were ever disbursed to anyone during any legal battle that they had. And so maybe they just didn't really collect a lot of money, [or] maybe that went somewhere else. And I certainly would not hazard a guess about what the answer to that question is.
Yeah. [laughs] We're here to stay on the side of – we're going to stay on the side of not speculating as to that. If anyone does have some evidence that somebody did receive some funds for that, please let me know. So far as I know I haven't heard anyone publicly saying yes, I received money from the ALDF. It seemed to be kind of completely a grift on the part of Augustus Invictus, to kind of take money out of the movement.
Gradually, he kind of drifts away from the movement, [during] the Optics Wars after Unite the Right. This is something we covered in some detail in episode 3
and episode 4
of this podcast.
We're talking about, like, after Unite the Right you sort of get this split in the alt-right between people who wanted to have some degree of mainstream respectability, the way they had in the run-up to the 2016 election, and those who were looking to be a little more overtly [nazi] – you know, using swastikas and nazi symbology and do a lot more street violence and advocate for revolution, that sort of thing.
Invictus definitely maintains a foot in the door of the mainstream people, of the people who are looking more [like] quote-unquote optics cucks, as they call themselves... or as they are called.
[laughs] They don't call themselves that, but – as they are called, while increasingly aligning himself with the more violent subculture. I suspect that maybe the ALDF is sort of meant to do that for him. Like, if he's kind of claiming to raise money, and he does have legal expertise, and he is kind of able to give legal advice to people, that is a reason to kind of keep him in your orbit, even if you don't agree with all of his opinions.
But it is – his podcast, the show that he ran for years, off and on, was called – I'm going to pronounce it the way it should be – it's Guerilla Radio, but he pronounces it Guereeya Radio just to give you that slight hint of pretension that you just wouldn't get otherwise.
Exactly the kind of thing you would expect from someone who would call himself Augustus Sol Invictus, right.
Pretty much, yeah.
So he creates this podcast – it's gone though a couple of iterations, just as the previous version got deleted from the Internet. He lost his hosting, he lost his Youtube channel. At the time of his arrest he was up to version 3.0. You can find some of the old episodes kind of scattered around the Internet. Archive has some, they're kind of around but – his Youtube channel, which had his most recent stuff, the 3.0 stuff, got wiped shortly after his arrest. Again, it would be a shame if someone managed to save that before it went away.
Terrible things. [laughs]
He kind of started to align himself – he called it Guerilla Radio because, like Cantwell, he considered himself pretty explicitly to be doing war propaganda.
His goal was, look – there a lot of this going around the libertarian movement as well as the alt-right: look, we're under occupation by a hostile force – the US government. We're under occuptation by the ZOG, by the Jews, although he wouldn't necessarily wouldn't put it in those terms back in the old days.
This is violence being done against us, in order to take resources from us, in order to not allow us to live the way we want. And some degree of violence is absolutely justified in terms of resisting their force.
I believe that we will have people in this audience who are pushing for some kind of socialist, left-leaning revolution, and I'm not going to disagree with that here. But that's certainly his explicit aim, that's the kind of thing – he is kind of considering himself to be doing propaganda on that angle.
Doing his senatorial campaign, he released videos... which are really just kind of audio snippets, mostly audio snippets of him talking. They have his campaign logo, he put them up on Youtube, and he called them "fireside chats".
It's interesting [that] back in that time he had much more of a Southern, kind of a mid-Atlantic accent, very broad.
It's interesting that he called he called them "fireside chats", which is obviously a kind of harkening back to FDR, despite the fact that he's doing this explicitly right-wing kind of radio show that builds very explicitly around a revolt against the modern world. A revolt against modernity and a revolt against the current state of the US government.
So Guerilla Radio fills that same kind of niche. I haven't listening to a lot of a stuff from those early days but it does fill that same kind of thing. He does a lot of interview segments. He brings people on. Chris Cantwell gets to go on one episode in the early days. He was in the mix.
He was one of those kind of major figures in the 2016, 2017 era. And then after Unite the Right he kind of falls a lot more in with the quote-unquote wignat crowd. He falls in with – ultimately gets closely connected with people like the Bowl Patrol, the Goy Talk guys and those kinds of figures.
I'm trying to... wignat, that's wigger nationalist, isn't it, if I remember...
Yeah, he uses the term wignat and – you know, I apologize for having to kind of use it in this way, but... it is a word that gets used incredibly regularly on that side.
It is Wigger nationalist, so it is like, we are not the ones wearing khakis and white polo shirts. We're in the kind of lower class, the working class. We work with our hands. We get dirt under our fingernails. We're the unrespectable ones who believe in some version of white nationalism. And so they call themselves wignats.
Among the people who call themselves that are nonetheless – there is a wide variety of opinion within that crowd as well. Various people who call themselves that, who are not really any sense of blue collar guys – or even if they are, they are not willing to get their hands dirty with this stuff in the same way that other ones are.
A lot of the terms that are being used to describe people who are advocating for armed revolution, who are more on the siegepill side – but it does get used by some people who describe themselves as just being blue collar. Blue collar white nationalist kind of types, as opposed to Richard Spencer, who is this kind of old-school blue-blood.
It's almost in contrast with those more famous figures, who get some degree of blue-blood money... who get to make their living making podcasts and writing books and stuff. So it is meant to be in contrast to that.
Invictus starts to ally himself more and more with that side, which makes sense because he is someone who is overtly advocating for armed conflict. He is overtly claiming, I'm making war propaganda. We're going to make war against the US government at some point. There is just no – he sees it as no option.
And so, as he kind of moves into 2018, 2019, as the divisions become clearer, he allies himself much more closely with the Vanguard Streaming, the Goy Talk Live kind of crew.
I don't know that he explictly – well yeah no, certainly in the same orbit as this guy Vic Mackey that we talked about in episode 29
to some degree, who is kind of the HBIC of the Bowl Patrol, that sort of thing.
He increasingly is distanced from Chris Cantwell – as everyone is at this point – and starts running legal defense for a lot of these guys.
One of the things that he does, he interviewed James Mason on one of his episodes, like a fairly recent episode of Guerilla Radio. He interviews James Mason. And this was just a few months ago. He apparently traveled to Mason's home, which is – from all we understand is in Denver, Colorado. I mean there are photos of Invictus at some diner [laughs] somewhere with James Mason.
One of the things that you – if you google Augustus Invictus, one of the first things that you find is that story of him sacrificing a goat.
Oh yes! The goat, yeah!
Yes, the goat. [laughs] This is one of those salacious details. Now, Invictus considers himself a pagan. He has considered himself a pagan since he was thirteen or fourteen...
He must have liked The Witch.
I don't know, I don't know that he's – I haven't heard him discuss it. But it's one of those salacious details that you get into... like, oh, Augustus Invictus, he sacrificed a goat. I find like that's – it is kind of one of those things I don't like talking about, like people's sex lives and things... you've got a revolutionary fascist who's hanging out with terrorists, and your lead is, he once sacrificed a goat?
I understand that people have different opinions about eating meat, but sacrificing a goat and drinking its blood is certainly less –
That goat probably suffered less than the food that I had for dinner today, let's just put it that way.
Factory farming is far more cruel than killing a goat and drinkings its blood.
Absolutely, yeah. I'm a vegetarian and I'm concerned about animal cruelty. Yeah. It's not the first consideration with this guy, clearly.
Right. But it is this bit that sort of becomes the thing that people talk about when they talk about Augustus Invictus. "He's got these weird religious beliefs!"
I mean let's call it what it is. It's kind of rank bigotry in some sense to say, like, because he's a pagan he's weird, as opposed to talking about the fact that he doesn't think the Holocaust happened.
That seems like a much more serious thing to talk about. I think that that's one of the things that gets – certainly in the mainstream media, that's the thing that he first comes to people's attention for in 2015. Because this came out while he was running for that Libertarian seat... Libertarian nomination for Senate, in 2015.
It's probably also tarring most neopagans with an unfair brush as well.
I don't imagine many of them take part in stuff like that.
Now, that said, there are some connections to this thing called Wolves of Vinland. I don't quite have the details on that in front of me, but this seems to be a fairly violent group. It kind of has its roots in Eastern Europe, or in Scandinavia I believe.
It has this kind of extended background with – they've actually done things like set fires, they've done some fairly hardcore stuff, in terms of actual white nationalist violence. He does have a connection to that group. And there are certainly allegations and hypotheses that he might have connections to other kinds of groups that I'm not comfortable talking about in the clear on this podcast. There are certain people listening who will probably be nodding at this point. Hopefully we will be able to nail some of that down and talk about it a little bit more concretely at some point in the near future.
But suffice to say that there are incredibly violent groups that have Satanic connections, that definitely have a lot to do with the modern-day white nationalist movement around the world, that actually qualify the whole thing as an international terrorist organization. And there is some question about whether Augustus Invictus may be connected to some of that. But there is no concrete evidence that I can point to. It's all kind of speculation.
That said, when he interviews James Mason, now, James Mason is all about – Charles Manson is the new incarnation of Adolf Hitler. Adolf Hitler was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. He has this very bizarre theology, this kind of Christian Nationalism [that is] built around the burning fire of breaking down society, et cetera et cetera, but [that still is] an explicitly Christian theology, which Invictus absolutely disagrees with.
Invictus is overtly pagan.
It is fascinating when two people with completely conflicting theologies that are both – with all apologies to people's faith – batshit insane from my perspective. [When two people like that] disagree with one another and yet agree to disagree, because ultimately what they agree on is getting rid of all the non-whites in our society. That's a kind of fascinating conversation there.
But yeah, as the months go on, as 2019 goes on, he spends a lot more time within this siegepill community. He becomes much more connected to it. He was actually doing a thing called the Revolutionary Conservative. This is a kind of website, a blog, and then it became a Youtube channel.
He was posting things there. It was part of the Heel Turn Network, which we literally mentioned on episode 1 of this show
, as a thing that Richard Spencer was connected with.
Richard Spencer and the Goy Talk guys, Vanguard Streaming, and Augustus Invictus and a couple other people were all doing live streams as part of this single network. And then that fell apart just a few months after we started talking about it. Augustus Invictus was a big part of that originally.
He ends up – after that split, he ends up going off with the siegepill guys. He ends up not quite being a part of Vanguard Streaming but simply hanging out with those guys a lot more than he is hanging out with the Richard Spencer crowd.
He is pushing a lot more for this race war, this revolution stuff. And he starts doing legal work. Presumably pro bono – I mean I don't know if he's getting paid for it. He starts doing legal work for a lot of these guys.
As the mass shootings of last summer start happening, as you start getting more and more pressure on them from legal authorities, he starts sending cease-and-desist orders. He starts doing their legal work for them. In fact he comes on to Goy Talk Live a couple of times and talk about, like, here's what you do when you do and do not say to police, for instance. [He's] giving them pretty explicit legal advice.
Invictus is very much a part of this side of the movement. He's very much allied with them during the whole last year. He also decides he's going to run for president and – [laughs]
Turns out it could get worse.
Turns out it could get worse! [laughs] Believe it or not, it gets worse. He decides he's going to run for president. And explicitly as part of his platform he says that building a wall is sort of the cuck position.
It's not enough to build a wall. It's not enough to keep people out. The Mexican government is clearly not able to control their own borders, in particular their southern border.
Because a lot of the worry that these guys have is not even, like, Mexicans are coming from the southern border across into the United States. Because a lot of them will sort of go, well, at least those are sort of descended from Spanish people, and Spanish people are Europeans. We don't necessarily want them in our country because they're mixed blood with the Native population. They're quote-unquote Mestizo people. At least they're sort of something like us and we can kind of deal with that.
The real fear is that the people from further down, into Central and South America, people with less Spanish blood are coming through Mexico into the United States. [sarcastic:] Do we need, like, Aztecs in our country? [laughs]
I promise you, this is a legitimate position that these people hold. I am not exaggerating. [laughs]
So Augustus, as a way of stemming the tide of these people coming across the southern border, says that the United States should have a warrior-like mentality in terms of its foreign policy. Instead of doing just a pure defense of the southern border, we should recolonize Mexico.
Essentially take control of Mexico through our military might and enforce the southern border at the southern Mexican border to prevent these people from even getting into Mexico.
Getting like a whole country's worth of buffer so that people cannot get into the United States borders proper.
When we say that some of these guys are explicitly pro-colonialist, that's what we mean. This is literally his policy. This is literally what we advocated for in so many words... and not ironically in the slightest.
This is overtly... this is where he was.
And it does speak to kind of warrior mindset, and all of his – he uses this mindset of, like, we need to go back to the age of conquest, we need to go back to the age of warrior culture, we need to re-embrace this kind of vision of masculinity, this vision of a true masculine culture, true masculine way of society – that is going to stand astride the world and not be cowed by the communists and by the women. All of these guys are vicious misogynists... which you knew because he is, like, raping people. Allegedly.
This is not just sort of a personal quirk, but also an explicit ideological component.
And that's incredibly common with these guys. It's almost universal. I'm tempted to say it is universal. These guys are to a person vicious misogynists. It's just part of that world.
And so that's him running for president. He was running – we was working on this presidential run. It's unclear what he was trying to do with that except make a name for himself and kind of push his ideas into the mainstream. Like, using these ideas as a way of trying to push the Republican Party, or American electoral politics, towards a more aggressive stands on some of these issues.
But he never really got anywhere with that. It did seem maybe kind of like another grift. But he was doing these weekly fireside chats, these weekly audio blogs, or rather vlogs, on his Youtube channel, up until the time that he got arrested.
It was just part of the thing he was doing.
Probably worth noting, something we should definitely cover is that while he was involved with the siegepill community – at a certain point he had a falling-out with some of them because –
[sarcastic:] Oh really? What a surprise!
What a surprise that these guys were fighting amongst themselves over nonsense.
[sarcastic:] Who ever heard of such a thing?
I mentioned that he had eight kids and that they are non-white. He has a Hispanic wife.
At least some of his kids are non-white. This is not something I have any – I'm not here to bring his children into this.
This is not something that we do here. But apparently there was one of these – it's on this show, the Gas Station, which we mentioned in episode 29 of this podcast
, which is one of these live streaming shows that for a long time was archived on some Bitchute channel but it got deleted at some point after we did episode 29
. I can't imagine why that happened.
They were still live streaming after they deleted their archive and it still kind of went up. And apparently on one of these shows they decided to kind of take a dig at Invictus. One of these guys decided to start talking about his kids and they found photos of his children.
And they were pulling those up on screen and using kind of vicious racial slurs towards them.
Yeah, nice. Nice. Stay classy, guys.
For some period of time... not just like, oh, we do thirty seconds – really, really vicious stuff. It drove a wedge in the entire siegepill community because basically there were people that were, like, yeah, fuck that guy, he's got non-white kids, he's a race mixer. He gets the bullet with the rest of them.
And then the others are going, like, yeah, but this guy is actually on our side and he's a good guy, and that sort of thing.
In the wake of that he actually doxed three of these figures who were instrumental with the movement... instrumental with doing this live show.
At least some of them, at least one or two of them were working on his campaign... were people who had previously worked for him. Essentially, he said, look, you either got loyalty or you don't, you're either a warrior or you're not. And the cost of disloyalty is death. And while under the laws of the United States I can't kill you: come when we control it, that will we be something we get to do of course.
Currently I can't kill you, but what I can do is dox you.
And so he gave their names – presumably, I'm not going to reveal them here, I don't have them in front of me and they haven't been confirmed, and this is not what we do here. But he gave their names, and enough identifying information so that they knew that he had their full info. And then he said, yeah, go delete everything off your phones before the cops come and find you. [laughs]
That's the thing.
Wow. What a warrior.
What a warrior.
It's a well-known thing that Roman centurions used to do. You know, the penalty for treachery is death, but I'm not allowed to do that where I happen to be now, so I'm just going to tattle your names and addresses to the... [laughs]
[laughs] I'm going to a Youtube live show where I do thirty minutes of nattering on about nothing and about why I need to do this, and then give your actual dox information at the very end.
That's essentially what he did. So I will link to a piece at Angry White Men that kind of covered that at the time.
The spirit of the legions marches on. [laughs]
[laughs] Right. This is exactly what Nero what have done, motherfuckers.
Yeah, exactly. [laughs]
So, that does kind of leads me to the thing... we've seen all these arrests around The Base, which is definitely connected to the siegepill community.
[sarcastic] Oh, did you know that means Al Qaeda in Arabic? [laughs]
[laughs] Yes, I'm aware.
Just a little fact for you there.
Yeah, it's a fact for me. In case I wasn't aware. [laughs]
And so he has this – so he's been arrested. Based on all these arrests, and based on all this stuff coming out, and based on the fact that he was willing to sell out his comrades, when they were just making fun of his children – which is vile behaviour, I'm not defending that –
No, no, shitty thing to do.
Just an incredibly awful thing to do to some of these kids.
I'm pretty sure he's singing to the feds. Let's just put it that way.
I'm fairly sure they want him there and I'm pretty sure he decided – he was probably not a difficult person to convince to talk about his buddies. Let's just put it that way.
Allegedly. I have no idea. I have no – law enforcement doesn't talk to me, believe me. You know, the cops do not trust me. Nor I them, for that matter.
We can be fairly certain that more will come of this. And so we're watching his legal woes with interest.
And yeah, that's kind of that right now. There is so much more to this guy... I mean I did a lot of digging just trying to – I felt like every time I hit rock bottom with the details on this guy I kept finding more stuff, more bizarre videos that he had done, more stories about him... a lot of it is kind of uncorroborated, a lot of it... there is lot of kind of contradictory stuff out there, and so it's hard to know exactly how to talk about it.
But this is somebody who's been in this for a while, and this is somebody who – regardless of how, he could very easily go to prison and the spend the rest of his life writing books. He could be that guy, or something. Who knows what the long-term story of this guy is.
We'll keep you posted.
That's kind of all I've got.
Sorry, I've been kind of just rambling into a mike for an hour.
He sounds like – he sounds pretty generic in many respects, to be honest.
He is and he isn't. Because he's much more... he is one of those guys, he's not one of the major figures that I'd put on kind of the top tier of important people in the movement, in terms of his influence.
But he's much more open about what he believes in. He's much more overtly violent. He's much more overtly revolutionary, as well as overtly willing to talk openly about the need for political violence. And that does set him apart from a lot of these other figures, especially considering how early as he was doing it.
Because he was talking about it back in 2015.
I suppose there is something to the honesty of that.
Without, you know, without implying any admiration at all, there is something to the willingness to just say it. The other thing that seems to mark him out to me, to the extent that anything does, is that fact that he is a qualified and practising lawyer and that he's doing legal work for them.
Yeah, I mean there are quite a few of these guys who do have some degree of kind of legal acumen, and so there other lawyers who are involved in this. Invictus both being a lawyer and being willing to ally himself with the siegepill crew is pretty unique.
You really don't see a whole lot of that otherwise. And it does allow him to kind of maintain this air of respectability while also being an open revolutionary.
I want to be clear about that: we on the left have certain ideas about socialist revolution and about what society should look like and what taking over the levers of power means.
But we're not advocating for armed revolution, streets running with blood, millions of people dead. We're not advocating for racial holy war here.
It's interesting that – yeah, the paradox I suppose is that he's a lawyer and he does legal work openly in the service of what he I suppose would admit it is, by the current regime, illegal aims. Which is – it's actually quite reminiscent of the OG Nazis back in Germany, because one of the biggest professional groups in the Nazi party was lawyers, you know.
Well, you know, even when he was running – even in that episode of the Radical Agenda, episode 44, that he was on, there is this – Chris asked him, like, so you're advocating revolution and you're running for Senate? These things don't quite work together, right? When even Cantwell is calling you out for your shit you know that there's something wrong there.
But his answer to that was, effectively, look, while these kinds of levers of power exist, if we can use them to make change we should do that. Or if we can kind of use the campaign as a way of pushing these ideas into the mainstream, doing that sort of thing, that's a tactic, a tool that we have.
We call for revolution, you know, if necessary.
So he does have kind of ways of squaring that circle. Ways that, you know, if I agreed with his aims I would broadly agree with. Of course, he's a fucking Nazi pushing for race war, so... not something I agree with, clearly.
So yeah, again, there's a lot more to this guy. We have just kind of scratched the surface. I guarantee you we're going to revisit this... maybe we'll do Invictus News instead of Cantwell News for a while as the legal case runs through the process and as maybe some more details come to light. But I feel comfortable leaving it there for now. We've been a little over an hour or so.
Should we just announce...?
Yeah, go ahead!
We have made a... Emily Gorcenski is going to be on the next episode.
We want to spend as much time as she feels comfortable doing, making as much fun as feels comfortable doing of Christopher Cantwell, who is now spending his time in jail. I am only hoping he does not start a podcast, "Live from the Federal Penitentiary" or some shit, that I have to listen to.
Because it's been pretty glorious to not have to deal with that fucker for a while. [laughs] Yeah, we're going to be covering the – maybe the last of the Cantwell News in the next episode, with Emily Gorcenski.
Maybe. Who knows. Probably not. There will always be more Cantwell News.
Yeah, no, I've spoken to Emily. She is excited to come on. We've been talking about this for a while. Even once the legal filing where he quoted Hitler came out she was like, oh yeah, we gotta do this, we gotta do this soon. And then he was arrested the next day... two days later, and it was like, oh yeah, we gotta do this. [laughs]
We almost did it this weekend but she was traveling, and so – we can wait a week, it's going to be fine. So, next week, Emily Gorcenski will be here and we'll be talking about Christopher Cantwell and it will be glorious.
It will indeed.
We've got a lot of other good stuff coming up for you, and hopefully – I hate to announce it because it always moves around, but – we will see.
Yeah, I think people... I think our listeners know by now that whenever we announce anything it's always got a big asterisk next to it.
If we announce a topic, it's definitely not going to happen.
Yeah, that's right.
It's the ones where we just kind of plan them quietly – that goes off without a hitch. But the second I say, next week we're doing Augustus Invictus, it takes like six months.
It's our version Heisenberg uncertainly. We pin it down, it's always by definition somewhere else. Yeah.
So that was episode 42. Thanks for listening and thanks to everybody who listens and retweets and shares and talks about us and especially – maybe not especially but, you know, with a special kind of thanks to those of you who help us out on our Patreons. It's enormously appreciated.
I did get a couple new big Patreons this week. So thank you very much to those people. I do appreciate that.
Yeah! Me too! And they're amazing! And I had to sadly say goodbye to one of my Patreons who – and this is not – I'm not having a go at them, they were – thank you for sticking around while you could, Patreon who pledged me four dollars seventeen cents a month, which I loved. I just loved that pledge. So yeah, it's a shame you've gone, but while you were there, you were my favorite. [laughs]
Cause it's just a wonderfully specific amount.
So yeah, that's goodbye from Daniel and goodbye from me, Maximus Cleverus Massivus Cockus as I've decided to rename myself. Because I'm very secure.
That was I Don't Speak German. Thanks for listening. We're on iTunes and show up in most podcast catchers.
You can find Daniel's twitter, along with links to pretty much everything he does, at @danieleharper
. You can find my twitter at @_jack_graham_
. Daniel and I both have Patreons, and any contribution you can make genuinely does help us to do this, though it also really helps if you just listen and maybe talk about us online to spread the word. If you'd like to give us stars and reviews on iTunes that would be appreciated too.