(actual episode page)

Jack:

Hello and welcome to I Don't Speak German, the podcast in which I, Jack Graham, talk to my friend Daniel Harper about what he learned after more than two years of listening to the far right, the alt-right, the white supremacists, the Nazis talk to each other in their online safe spaces, their Youtube videos, their podcasts, et cetera. Conversations about the far right's conversations, you could say. 1

Hi Daniel, how are you doing? 2

Daniel:

I'm doing well. I don't think I listened to any Nazis today, it's pretty – is this what real life is like? 3

Jack:

I believe so. Yeah. I hear this. 4

Daniel:

[laughs] 5

Jack:

It's not exactly catch up, but there is something about last week's show that you wanted to highlight, wasn't there? 6

Daniel:

Yeah, no, one thing that I put in the show notes but then forgot to mention on the show was this piece in the New Yorker by Andrew Marantz, and this is – it's entitled Birth of a White Supremacist. We can stick the link back in this one. 7

It is a profile of our good buddy Mike Enoch here. Enoch at this point was still participating with journalists. He stopped doing this at some point as his legal troubles got closer and closer to actually causing him problems. He increasingly no longer communicates with any kind of media. But he used to basically talk to anybody and he would just try to troll them. And so – for instance, with this Marantz piece – Marantz speaks to Enoch for hours and hours, I think there is four to six hours of conversations that they had, in terms of getting the background, in terms of trying – Marantz is doing his due diligence and is trying to understand Enoch. And Enoch recorded the calls, I mean with Marantz' permission. This was like a term of doing the interviews, doing the profile was that he said I have the right to release these on my show. 8

And so he took little edited segments and then would play them on the show and then would talk over them. And because Andrew Marantz is Jewish it's pretty horrifying listening [to] a lot of it. But the whole thing is trying to mock Marantz for being beholden to the system of whatever. 9

At one point Marantz is talking on the phone to Enoch and he says oh, I'm having lunch, Marantz does. And Enoch says, what are you having. And Marantz was actually eating bagels and lox but he didn't want to say so because he would just be bantzed on by Enoch and – it's just, it's a really good piece actually. 10

Enoch claims that even after he spent all this time being interviewed for it, he claims to have not read it. Although he also claims to know what's in it. 11

Jack:

[sarcastic] Yeah. Yeah. 12

Daniel:

So we can just – it's bullshit. I mean, for one thing... 13

Jack:

Yeah, you didn't read that, Mike. 14

Daniel:

Clearly. 15

Jack:

We believe you. We believe you. 16

Daniel:

A man in love with his own voice as much as Mike Enoch is did not read the thing that he spend hours being interviewed for. 17

I mean, for one thing, there's a piece – there is like a little bit at the beginning of the piece where he says – Marantz talks about how Enoch as a kid, he had acne medication. And he had acne, and it was apparently bad enough that the other kids kind of made fun of him or whatever. And what we in the, what do you call it, writing business call that is a humanizing detail. 18

Jack:

Yeah. 19

Daniel:

Enoch says this is – this becomes the thing that made me a white nationalist. And suddenly this psychologizing of – this kind of pathological thing, that you're trying to make it so that I just couldn't have come to these beliefs rationally, that it had to be some deep-seated psychological process or whatever. And that's this totally Jewish thing and Talmudry et cetera, et cetera... 20

Jack:

[laughs] [sarcastic:] That is a well-known Jewish thing, talking about people's acne to discredit their political ideas. That is an ancient Jewish technique. 21

Daniel:

Exactly. Exactly. 22

Jack:

I think Moses actually does that to Pharaoh, doesn't he? 23

Daniel:

Yeah! [laughs] 24

Jack:

In Exodus... 25

Daniel:

I think that's one of the plagues, right? 26

Jack:

Yeah. 27

Daniel:

Not even just the acne but the acne medication, that's the thing. 28

So yeah no – again, read the piece, it's worth reading again, it's worth one of your – it's at the New Yorker, but it is worth of one of your one free articles at the New Yorker. If you have any interest in this guy at all, and if you listened to the last episode, I assume – if you still listen to me, I assume you have some interest in this guy, so, go check it out. 29

Jack:

Yeah, that is a good essay. And we did put that in the show notes for the last episode. I'll put it the show notes for this episode as well. 30

The other thing is that we – I think we've acquired a new fan. 31

Daniel:

Yeah, I mean – far be it from me to call out all of our dozens of fans or anything, but... 32

Jack:

[chuckles] 33

Daniel:

...I did get a tweet. I figure I'll mention it here. I'm not going to read the tweet because I don't want to call any more attention to this person than I have, but we did get a correction, I should say, and this is a really serious correction, that I take completely, one hundred percent to heart... 34

Jack:

This is a very important issue, you know, and we should hang our heads in shame for having gotten this wrong, I think. 35

Daniel:

Exactly, exactly. So I'm not going to read the thing but I will tell you that the handle for this guy, not the handle but the display name, is a TRS meme that you wouldn't necessarily know unless you know TRS as well as I do. And it's actually a couple-of-years-old TRS meme at that. 36

And this person, who I assume is a dude – don't allow me to misgender you, sir or madam or however you chose to identify, if that's what you are – they want to make sure that I – that they knew that I knew that I did give not give the full history of the iinteresting meme. And that is what actually originally – they started doing it to make fun of a particular journalist who was covering them two years ago. 37

You're right. I'm sorry. I was not completely clear on that, I... 38

Jack:

He got us! 39

Daniel:

…said it's completely, one hundred percent about this kind of vicious misogyny that these people have towards every person that doesn't have a penis in their life. 40

Jack:

How dare you. 41

Daniel:

I didn't clarify that it started off as an epic troll in their eyes against a professional journalist that they didn't like. And I deeply, deeply apologize for that. That is clearly a horrifying mistake and I do apologize for it. I would like to note that this is the correction we got. And in this last episode I described in some detail that these are genocidal racists who are producing content that is trying to insert that into our political discourse, through really insipid humor. Didn't get correction on any of that. So I'm assuming all that's one hundred percent valid. 42

But on that meme I'll admit I could have clarified that all a bit better. 43

Jack:

Well what you're failing to take into account there, Daniel, is that our mistake there, about not pointing out that the iinteresting meme is specifically a reference to one specific – started as a specific reference to one specific person – what you're failing to take into account is that that mistake on our part invalidates absolutely everything else we've ever said in any of these podcasts. 44

Daniel:

Oh, don't worry, I'm aware, and I hang my head in shame. Really, our audience should just stop listening to us now. 45

Jack:

In fact, we're going to stop the podcast and we're both going to retire to monasteries. 46

Okay, yeah, so, on with episode proper. 47

Welcome back to episode – this is now episode 10, listeners. And this, in a change to our announced topic, I'm afraid, sorry, you'll have to wait for the spicy goodness of the topic that we said we were going to talk about because we changed it. This week we're actually going to be talking about James Allsup and Nick Fuentes. 48

So Daniel, tell me about James... oh god, do I really want to know about these people? 49

Yes, I do. 50

Yes, sorry. 51

Daniel, tell me about James Allsup. 52

Daniel:

[laughs] 53

Jack:

[laughs] Why I am doing this to myself? 54

Daniel:

I don't know. I mean, you're helping me. This is what this project is. 55

Jack:

Spoilers, spoilers, listeners, I do actually know – I'm coming in a little bit less ignorant than usual. I do actually know a little bit about these two guys, and... oh my god, what a pair of dicks. [laughs] 56

Daniel:

[laughs] So, I'll just say – I just had some other things I was working on this week and didn't the mental energy to go through – basically the episode I was planning required me to summarize fifty years of white nationalist history. And it meant doing a little bit more reading than I was prepared to do, given other things in my life. So I apologize, we'll do that – we're going to try to do it next week, but this was one that I knew I could basically prep in 45 minutes and do a perfectly fine job of because... these are two completely ridiculous figures. 57

I would like to say that when I told Jack we were going to do this one, he – a couple of hours later he said, my god, Allsup is a vile chunk of excrement. 58

Jack:

[grins] 59

Daniel:

My response was, oh, you're checking him out for yourself... I'm sorry. 60

Jack:

I had actually heard of Allsup before. You know, the name swirls around if you're in any way tuned in to this stuff. But the most I knew about him, you know, in any sort of concentrate form, was from Kevin Logan's Descent of Man-osphere video about him, which – I don't know how it stands up for you, Daniel, but I think that's pretty good. 61

Daniel:

Oh, it's pretty good. The thing is that one, like – it mostly covers his early days. 62

Jack:

Hm. 63

Daniel:

And he's sort of moved on since then a bit, and so... 64

Jack:

Yeah. 65

Daniel:

Sorry I didn't put that in the show notes. It should definitely go in the show notes. 66

Jack:

I'll put it in. The other thing about that is that it's from before he and little Nicky fell out, isn't it. 67

Daniel:

Well, it's kind of before – I mean a lot of it covers Allsup before he really entered his current phase. Because... 68

Jack:

Oh right, he's matured as an artist since then, you mean. 69

Daniel:

...despite the fact that he's only 23 he has gone through – I mean he's been in... 70

Jack:

How? 71

Daniel:

...he was in the Ron Paul 2012 campaign... 72

Jack:

Hang on, hang on. [sarcastic:] He's only 23. And yet he's achieved so much. [cracks up] 73

Daniel:

He is such as bright shining light. He was involved in the Ron Paul 2012 campaign, when he was 16 years old. 74

Jack:

[sarcastic:] Wow. 75

Daniel:

Yeah. And so... 76

Jack:

[sarcastic:] I just love teenage libertarians, don't you. They're my favorite thing. 77

Daniel:

Well just wait, Nick Fuentes is 20, man, I mean... 78

Jack:

Ow. What a pair of prodigies. 79

Daniel:

What I find interesting here, in the – part of the guiding principle here was to kind of talk about these guys as super-young, politically motivated guys who were trying to work within – in some sense within a kind of Conservatism, Inc. system to push these far-right ideologies. 80

And we're going to see more and more of these guys. This is sort of an explicit strategy that we're seeing. So someone like Richard Spencer or Mike Enoch, these are the guys in their late thirties, early thirties – I think they're 41 or 42 now – most of the figures that we've talked about have been people who sort of came out in this white nationalist milieu in some sense or another but who never really tried to infiltrate the system at large. 81

And both Allsup and Fuentes have made inroads in this – have been, with varying degrees of success, we can kind of talk about that as we go on, but – this is something kind of real, and really important, in terms of understanding that the College Republican clubs are sort of the target audience for this. It is eighteen, nineteen years olds, kind of learning how to organize for right-wing political activities et cetera who are – there's an attempt to inculcate them with this really explicit white nationalist ideology, but to do so – but then to sort of pull back and to, there is term that's used, hide your powerlevel. Don't say the things that you know about, say, the Jews. Say cultural elites – phrase things in ways that are palatable for mainstream audiences but do remain within this kind of mainstream, mainstreamish power structure, which you can then – use your position to sort of push things further and further in an explicitly white nationalist agenda. This is why... 82

Jack:

There is a technical term for this sort of thing, isn't there. What is it, it's on the tip of – [sarcastic:] oh yeah, I remember: lying. 83

Daniel:

[cackles] Yes. No, it is – I mean, these guys are... 84

Jack:

That was a jab at them, not you, sorry. [laughs] 85

Daniel:

[laughs] No, these guys are all fucking liars. And certainly, when you get this – it is interesting how much they complain quote-unquote Jewish subversion of white societies. And what you are planning on doing is to take a society that exists and subvert it from within. This is your explicit goal. 86

Jack:

Almost like the first rule with all these people is that anything, anything they accuse anybody else of doing they do all the fucking time. That's like rule number one. 87

Daniel:

This even gets to where even the meta levels of that, to where even the meta text of the thing they're accusing someone else of doing gets into something they're actually doing. There is a – they say it's like an old Polish proverb, and it's the Jew [cries] out as he strikes you. And what this means is that basically – and again, I hate to even describe it just because it makes me sound like a terrible person, you know – but the concept is that the Jew is going to cry out as they strike you, so they're going to cry about, like oh, the Holocaust, how terrible for me, and they're doing this as a way of drawing sympathy for themselves while they're at the same time punching you in the face. And, based on that process – this is exactly what these guys are doing. 88

Jack:

Yeah. 89

Daniel:

The entire strategy of, like, we're going to go and march, we're going to claim it's a free speech march or whatever, but we're going to do it with flaming torches and yell Jews will not replace us, in order to get people to oppose us, and then we'll cry out – we're attacked rhetorically or physically – I mean they're doing this explicit thing, and yet they're claiming the other side is doing that as a way of deflecting from that... 90

Jack:

Yeah! 91

Daniel:

They're several layers deep on their bullshit and this is endemic to the entire movement and is particularly endemic to these guys, who are attempting to distance themselves from the more explicit – the more explicitly white supremacist, white nationalist stuff. 92

And that's what kind of interesting me about these guys. And so I guess we should sort of dig into who these guys are a little bit. 93

Jack:

Yeah, please. 94

Daniel:

So the reason I'm covering these guys together is because they actually used to do a podcast together. And it was called the Nationalist Review. 95

Jack:

[sarcastic:] The Nationalist Review, that's funny, yeah. 96

Daniel:

Yeah, so, [instead of] National Review it's Nationalist Review, and it's a very clever name, you see. 97

Jack:

Yeah. Everything about Allsup is store-brand, isn't it. He's like the store-brand Richard Spencer. Even his... 98

Daniel:

[laughing] People say that, and like the reality is, he's the store-brand Jazzhands McFeels. 99

Jack:

[laughs] 100

Daniel:

Jazzhands McFeels is the host of the Fash the Nation podcast, who has yet to be doxed. And I swear, as much as you think James Allsup really, really wants to be Richard Spencer when he grows up, he even more wants to be Jazzhands McFeels when he grows up. It is – it bleeds off of this guy. 101

Jack:

[laughs] 102

Daniel:

Whatever Fash the Nation says on Sunday, James Allsup is saying in Tuesday. It's like, it's almost like clockwork. It's amazing to see. I find it incredibly amusing. And this is important because – I will just kind of – one of the reasons I wanted to talk about him is because – it started right after we did the Daily Shoah episode – is that Allsup is very thoroughly integrated into the broader TRS, the Right Stuff community. And he pretends that's not true but he's very, very close to all of these guys. 103

He appeared on the November 2018 election night coverage, alongside Enoch and Sven and Jazzhands McFeels and, I mean, he was one of those guys. He has appeared on one of the second-tier TRS podcasts, Exodus Americanus, a half dozen times. He has contributed audio to a bit that's on – that's in the main Daily Shoah program called the Merchant Minute, which is all about how awful Jews are. It's basically just a comedy bit, quote-unquote, about whatever awful things the State of Israel is doing, and whatever thing some Jewish group is saying, like maybe gay people and trans people are perfectly fine human beings – No, no, got to be awful. 104

Merchant Minute – it's a really unpleasant listen. James Allsup has contributed audio to a couple of those segments, like, as himself, making fun of himself. 105

And that's – he attended one of the TRStlemania – TRStlemania is one of the yearly events that these guys do, it's sort of their get-together with their fans, with their hard-core fans. He appeared on stage at one of those, or at least he was there in the crowd. He was called out from the stage, from it, when everybody was like super drunk. So I'm not sure exactly what was going on because Enoch eventually – at the end of that starts yelling about how everyone in this movement is going to be – end up like Eugène Terre'Blanche and be hacked to death in their bed if we don't act immediately. 106

So I don't know exactly what was going on with Allsup but he got called out from the stage. 107

He was clearly there. 108

He is very clearly well-integrated with TRS. He has appeared on a lot of these shows. He will not say this. He will absolutely distance himself in public. If he were here right now he would say, oh no, yeah what, just because I appeared on a show – no. 109

He's one of their guys. 110

Jack:

Yeah. 111

Daniel:

Don't let him lie, okay? 112

Jack:

Yeah. No, there's load of stuff in the Kevin Logan video about how he denies he's alt-right all over the place but he's just up to his neck in it. 113

Daniel:

Absolutely. And I mean, again, both these guys will say, I'm not a white nationalist, or I'm not an Identitarian or whatever, I'm just – whatever, it's such a... 114

Jack:

Yeah, you know, I've chosen to identify myself using this word instead of that word, so... 115

Daniel:

Well, it's even like I was... 116

Jack:

He's absolutely a white nationalist. 117

Daniel:

Just to jump to Fuentes briefly, I watched this video that he did because he – he was trying do to this event at ISU, Iowa State University, and apparently there was some drama where he did a video called ISU REPUBLICANS BETRAY ME, all in caps there. And I have not watched that video but apparently he was supposed to give a speech and then the local Republicans decided, oh, you're a little bit too far out there for us, because we don't like... 118

Jack:

Huh 119

Daniel:

...being associated with explicit white nationalism. And so he gave his little speech just standing out in the snow there. Mostly to the counter demonstrators, which is interesting. And he says, you know, I'm not a white nationalist. I'm white, and I'm a nationalist... 120

Jack:

Yech. 121

Daniel:

...and, you know, I just think that this country should be made for the citizens, and we should be taking their needs in first. That is true, that's what he says in public, surrounded by counter demonstrators. On his show, if you watch any of it at all, he will say, routinely, we need to pay attention to the founding stock of this country. The founding stock! 122

He will talk to great lengths about the Immigration Act of 1790, [with] which citizenship was granted only to free white men of good character. He will bemoan the 1965 Immigration Act. 123

He is absolutely in favor of white people and white people only. He just is clever enough to not say all that explicit shit in front of people who are – he just doesn't say it close enough to people who are not actively paying attention to him, who oppose him. 124

And that's part of the thing, is that he [can] bury all this shit in hours and hours of content, because he produces basically a ninety-minute show five days a week. And you've got to kind of be there to watch enough of it to get the sense of what he's actually saying. It's not hard to find, but you have to dig through it and find it, you know.... 125

Jack:

Hm. Yeah. 126

Daniel:

And that's kind of the point. This is very much – you scratch the surface and you find this stuff all over the place. He has videos where he has this little whiteboard and he will put it up and he will go, good qualities on one side, and it's Christian, white, et cetera, et cetera. And then three of the things on the other side, of all the bad things, are Jewish. He swears that's that about religious, not ethnic, identity, but it's pretty clear it's about ethnic identity. 127

Not to kind of get off on Nick Fuentes immediately but, you know, both of these guys do this shit. That one had – that was in my head because I watched it like 45 minutes before we started recording here. Just to get a sense of that, kind of what was going on. 128

So anyway, these guys first came to my notice, some time September, October 2017, because they had been doing this show called the Nationalist Review. And they did it together. 129

Now this was, on the scale of these shows, better than most. And that's because these two have slightly different political identities. And if you're just listening to it, so many of these shows are just absolutely atrociously produced and really terrible to listen to, just really, really difficult listens, and it's mostly just white guys yelling about the Jews in your earphones all day. 130

These guys, you know, they're a cut above that. They're a little bit more erudite, they're a little bit more interesting, and they sort of had slightly differing ideologies – basically, around Donald Trump. 131

Allsup is a lot more like somebody like Jazzhands McFeels, who we will cover in detail in a future episode, I promise, as much more sort of the idea is we have to sort of push Trump to do the things that we want him to do and we can't sort of take half measures as an answer. And there is some defense of Trump when they want to spin it, but it's more, you know, we have to sort of be activists in our own right and kind of make Trump do the things we want him to do. 132

Fuentes is one hundred percent, I want to sit at the altar of Donald Trump's cock and worship everything this man says, you know.... 133

Jack:

[chuckles] 134

Daniel:

There's always this sort of thing of, like, there's a plan, there's this thing that's happening behind the scenes, what they call 88-dimensional chess. 135

Jack:

Oh yeah. 136

Daniel:

It's not 3D or 4D chess, it's 88-dimensional chess, 88 of course being – 88 is Heil Hitler, you know... 137

Jack:

Yeah... 138

Daniel:

Sorry, just wanted to throw that in in case people didn't know that. 139

So, I first discovered them through this show. And it lasts for a little while, about eight months. There was trouble in paradise, however. Because... 140

Jack:

[sarcastic:] Aww. 141

Daniel:

These people cannot get along to save their fucking lives. 142

Jack:

[laughs] 143

Daniel:

This show completely collapsed over – the details are a little – I mean I haven't – it's been a while now, because this was like early 2018, so it's been a little bit over a year since, since they kind of broke up the band there. 144

Fuentes complains that Allsup has not been showing up on time to the recordings and then he missed some recording. Allsup at the time was finishing his last semester of college, and so Allsup says, well, no, I was finishing at my classes and had all this other stuff to do, and so I missed some stuff. Now I've graduated and I'm going to be here more kind of, more full time. So Fuentes claims he's not around enough. Allsup for his part claims that Fuentes was not really taking the recording seriously and that he was not doing the prep work, and that he complaining all the time that didn't have a good-enough computer do really do the live streams. And because they were trying to get little quote-unquote company off the ground, where they were going to build this little media empire between the two of them, and then they had third guy named Matt, who apparently is an old friend of Nick Fuentes but has sort of gone with James Allsup in the divorce, which is, okay... 145

Jack:

[laughs] 146

Daniel:

And Fuentes was trying to get the company to buy him a new computer, but then Allsup wasn't responding fast enough to him, and – I mean it's just this petty fucking bullshit, right? Like it's... 147

Jack:

Yeah, it's nothing. 148

Daniel:

...deeply petty nonsense. And they just broke up over it. And then there's apparently a lawsuit that happened. So they hired fucking lawyers. There can't be more a couple thousand dollars involved in this thing, I mean, you know, the amount of – that's not real money. I mean, not to say that I wouldn't miss a few hundred, a few thousand dollars, obviously, I would like to have that, but the idea that they get lawyers involved over what had to be a minuscule sum of money. Unless they had some sort of outside investor, which is possible – that some shadowy guy gave them thirty grand or something, I don't know. 149

But it seems like... 150

Jack:

It sounds like the sort of thing they should Judge Janine to sort out. 151

Daniel:

Yeah, I know, I would be on board with that. 152

So they sit and they whine at each other, you know, over social media forever. Because at this point James – I believe James Allsup still had a Twitter at this point. He was one of those that got banned... no, he did not have a Twitter. But he was complaining on his show and he actually did a Youtube video, which is now deleted and unfortunately I don't think it's anywhere in my archive, where he described his side of the story and Fuentes described his side of the story, and they just kind of went after each other. And there's this – they both appeared on this thing called The Ralph Retort at some point... 153

Jack:

I'm getting strong deja vu from the Sarkeesian Effect at this point [laughs] 154

Daniel:

Oh yes! If anything, the issues were even more petty and even more vicious. But yes, no, you're right, the Aurini-Owen fight. This is very much that same kind of fight. 155

So they both appeared on this thing called The Ralph Retort and they argued with each other, and, you know... What's interesting is that, aside from all of that, they clearly have differing perspectives about what the best way to take their little media empires were. Now... 156

Jack:

M hm. 157

Daniel:

...what Fuentes does is, he's a very, heavily – they've both kind of migrated to Youtube for a while. Allsup was trying to build the podcast into something and kind of do a different kind of show. He invited some other guests on. He was kind of associated with this group, Identity Evropa, which as of this speaking no longer exists, but... 158

Jack:

That's right, yeah. 159

Daniel:

They're now calling it the American Identity Movement, but... that's again a whole other story. This is basically a group of people who are doing this – Identity Evropa is trying to do street-level activism and kind of infiltrating College Republican clubs. As a group trying to sort of do this same kind of thing, so they're kind of included in this – it's a separate enough thing that I'd like to cover it as its own episode, but it's a similar kind of thing. Trying to pretend we're mainstream Republicans when really we're fucking nazis. 160

Jack:

Yeah, that sort of tendency is active in the UK as well. 161

Daniel:

Oh yeah, and I mean, ultimately, what they're all trying to do is something like that. They're all kind of working in this kind of area of, we're pretending to be one thing but really we're another thing. 162

I would be completely – I do not – I don't want to be unfair to these people. I want to make that completely clear. I'm not... 163

Jack:

You don't need to be, do you? 164

Daniel:

I will not call James Allsup a white nationalist if I do not have really clear evidence that he's a fucking white nationalist, alright? 165

Jack:

M hm. 166

Daniel:

All you have to do is watch his shows and I can point out – I can take any one of this videos, and this is actually where I was going to go with this: what he's doing on his channel is making basically clickbaity videos that all have kind of clickbait headlines like, Woman Cries Hate Crime Over Pollen on Car, for instance, or Prager U Is Totally Wrong About Immigration, because they actually support the kind of libertarian-ish idea that more immigration is better for America because – better for corporations and improves GDP. 167

You know, yeah, I agree with you, James. Prager U is full of shit. But not for the reasons you think they are. 168

College Students to Pay Reparations Fine for, you know, Slavery. He's got a ton – it's all – there's just like three or four that are on the front page of his channel here. And he's been doing this for a while. And these are designed to have, again, to look like a standard, like a Tim Pool-like... 169

Jack:

Chris Ray Gun... 170

Daniel:

Chris Ray Gun, kind of this sort of alt-lighty, not-really-racist but kind of approaching that same kind of idea. And then he buries these white nationalist talking points, this sort of white nationalist framing, within these videos. 171

Jack:

Yeah. 172

Daniel:

And in that Ralph Retort stream, which I'm linking – the full stream was eight hours long, the video I've linked like ninety minutes long, and there's maybe like fifteen minutes in the middle, where these two are kind of arguing back and forth. 173

He lays out this cunning, quote-unquote cunning, plan of burying these things within one of the videos. But it's very clear what he's doing. He's trying to talk about how terrible left wingers are, how terrible Antifa is, et cetera. But then to do this in a way that ultimately kind of shifts – to mix demographics and sort of racial – the failures of racial reconciliation, puts that kind of forefront in the mind. 174

They're very well produced, actually. He's – Allsup is scary because he's actually sort of good at this. I can definitely see that people who don't know these memes the way I do, and who don't see the seams in it, who kind of watch it casually, could easily be convinced by this stuff. This is really dangerous. 175

Also, Allsup has like four hundred thousand Youtube subscribers or something similar to that. I didn't know, [I don't] have it right in front of me here. But he has hundreds of thousands of Youtube subscribers. His top videos have millions of views. I think the top one has about eight million views. Which makes him one of the single largest sources in the alt-right, in this white nationalist thing. 176

He is – with several hundred thousand Youtube subscribers, even kind of like three hundred thousand, he would easily eclipse something like the Daily Shoah in terms of his impact, the number of people he's able to reach. That by itself makes him incredibly dangerous. 177

Jack:

Yeah, absolutely. 178

Daniel:

And the fact that he's sort of burying this ideology within something that's meant to appeal to this sort of edgy-but-not – this kind of edgy conservatism, right. You know, he's – that's sort of the goal. 179

If you look at the show notes, there are multiple web sites called Nationalist Review, because there is an original podcast feed, and then a secondary podcast feed with only a few episodes in it. Because when Allsup took over he didn't have the password to the original files. And so Fuentes kept that but then didn't pay for it and so it's all gone now. 180

Jack:

[laughs] 181

Daniel:

And then the few episodes that are up there, that hasn't been updated in forever. The America First Media – because, like, then they each wanted the access to the word America First as their branding, so there is like America First with Nick Fuentes, and then there is America First Media, which is Allsup's thing. 182

And apparently this guy Matt is still updating the America First Media web site. but mostly through text. And I think they might be putting up Allsup's videos there as well. But it seems to be – it's like sort of there, sort of not. It's still listing Fuentes as one of the contributors, so – like there's not updating their web sites very often. 183

So if Allsup is kind of gone this direction of pushing these kind of clickbaity things, and kind of worming his way into the mainstream that way, then Fuentes has gone full on Youtube Streaming Star. And I put the word Star in many, many levels of irony there. 184

Jack:

Yeah. 185

Daniel:

So Nick Fuentes has – he has a couple, I think about ten thousand subscribers. 186

Jack:

I was going to say, it was sort of my impression just from clicking around a bit, that Fuentes is kind of doing a bit better than Allsup after the split. 187

Daniel:

No, I mean if anything – it just kind of depends on what you're looking at. I mean, from my end, Allsup has managed to sort of stay – I mean he gets, (a) he's got twenty times – I just looked at Nick Fuentes, he's got twenty two thousand subscribers on Youtube. So Allsup has twenty times that, in terms of his potential reach. 188

Jack:

Nick Fuentes seems to be more – people seem more aware of him though. He turns – I mean often it's in the context of having the piss the taken out of him, but... 189

Danie: I think that's probably true. I think that Allsup manages to stay – he manages to kind of keep his name off the things a little bit more. Whereas Fuentes – I think that people know who Fuentes is but they don't like him very much. His fans will call him Nick the Knife because he is constantly fighting with everybody else in the movement. He has told off Richard Spencer at least once. 190

Richard Spencer thinks he's a pipsqueak. 191

Fuentes thinks Richard Spencer is gay. He didn't use the word gay, not that that's anything awful but, you know, he used a slur there. And the thinks that Richard Spencer is this effete intellectual who's not actually involved in actually fighting for the white race, et cetera. 192

Nick Fuentes tried to... 193

Jack:

The idea! The idea of calling Richard Spencer an intellectual of all things. 194

Daniel:

The idea of Nick Fuentes on one stream – I don't think it was on – it was not on his show, but it was on another show. This guy Patrick Little, who again we will cover in more detail but who is a former US marine, who is a big guy, over six feet tall, has weapons training, he was working security at Unite the Right, by his own admission. I haven't seen outside documentary evidence of that, but I have no doubt his was there, I know he was there. Apparently he was working as private – the TRS security crew. This is guy you would not want to necessarily fuck with because... 195

Jack:

M hm. 196

Daniel:

Especially if you're Nick Fuentes, who is I think something like four feet seven inches tall and weight like seventy-five pounds. I'm slightly exaggerating there but he is not a big man. But on the Internet... 197

Jack:

Which is, which is fine. Nothing wrong with that. 198

Daniel:

No, no problems with any of that. But he definitely... 199

Jack:

Have some self-awareness. 200

Daniel:

He threatened Patrick Little on a live stream. 201

Jack:

[laughs] 202

Daniel:

It's like you – that is not a good look for you, Nick Fuentes. 203

But, you know, that's what he did. 204

Nick Fuentes likes to sic his audience on people. I know this because he's done it to me twice. Just to let you know. 205

Jack:

Yeah. 206

Daniel:

He – because I was – the first time he noticed me actually – and this, again, speaks to the fact that these two people are like inextricably linked forever... 207

Jack:

[laughs] 208

Daniel:

I was making fun of James Allsup's hair when he was in an Identity Evropa event. And Nick Fuentes liked the tweet. Meaning not only is Nick Fuentes, like, name searching himself, he's name searching James Allsup. 209

I wasn't even tagging James Allsup. James Allsup wasn't even on Twitter at that point. So he was looking for people talking about Allsup and then liked my tweet making fun of James Allsup's hair. Because he did have – that video has been deleted from Youtube unfortunately so I couldn't put it on the show notes, but he did have really, really ridiculous hair. It was like the bad of the fashy – the fash haircut thing. 210

Jack:

That's a... that's a tautology, Daniel. 211

Daniel:

The even more ridiculous version of that. 212

So that's when I first realized that Nick Fuentes was an even sillier figure than I thought he was. Because he was like name searching. 213

And then at a certain point I was like – [laughs] I'll put it in the show notes and if we're talking about it. But I was, I was like screenshotting him and pointing out like how silly Nick Fuentes is in terms of – and described, when he was talking about the child separation stuff and the children in cages, his position is very mainstream among the far right, the dissident right, even among the mainstream right. 214

His position is, well, you know, if your children get separated from you when you arrive at our borders, that's your fault, because you're disobeying our laws and ultimately this is just something – you knew the consequences when you arrived here. 215

I just pointed that out, ultimately. I was just saying, like, this is – all I do is describe his position on things, and then he sics his goons on me, so I don't know exactly how that – his onlinegoons, excuse me, I'm not trying to pretend like he has actually people who would do anything for him in the real world. 216

But it was, you know, forty-eight hours of kind of constant abuse from his fan base, which was, you know – I just turned the notifications off after a while. It was a very amusing little thing, little teenyboppers showing up in my mentions and thinking they owned me by saying womp womp. That's pretty much was that was. 217

Jack:

Yeah... yeah. 218

Daniel:

He tried it again, like a few months later... I don't really remember what that one was. It was early enough in the morning that I don't think his fan base was really up and moving around yet. Because they're all teenagers. But, yeah, he definitely has [incomprehensible 39:29] a couple of times. He doesn't follow me, but he also doesn't block me. 219

Nick Fuentes is someone who is deeply, deeply fucking misogynist. I have this thing of, like – I end up focusing a lot on the racism that these people have because that's sort of the thing that differentiates them more from the mainstream right. But all these people are also viciously, viciously misogynist. There is this sort of idea of like, women should – the wheat field is sort of this idea. All these kind of stock photos of healthy-looking blonde women with children, you know, kind of happy in a wheat field. And so the fantasy is, that's what they want in their lives. They want a beautiful blonde Aryan woman who will bear them children and who will kind of be in the stock photo land. 220

Jack:

Stand in a wheat field. 221

Daniel:

Stand in a wheat field, exactly. 222

Jack:

[quietly:] Okay. 223

Daniel:

And... 224

Jack:

I'm not one to sneer at anybody's kink, you know, but that's – that's a bit odd. 225

Daniel:

Well, I mean as long as it's consensual and all, I mean... 226

Jack:

Oh yeah, sure. 227

Daniel:

I have no issue with that. If that's the life you want to life, and that's the life – if that's what you want out of life, I don't have any problem with that. I want do be clear about that. But what they're trying to do is to force all women into deep subservience to men in their lives, and remove their ability to make money, et cetera et cetera. And want them just to bear children until they die. That's sort of the – that's sort of where this movement is trying to take people. And I probably could talk about that more. It's just – every one of them believes this, so I'd just end up repeating myself over and over again. 228

Jack:

M hm. 229

Daniel:

But it's worth noting here: Nick Fuentes is even bad even by these standards. 230

Jack:

[chuckles] 231

Daniel:

This guy screams incel. 232

Like, (a), he's twenty years old and he spends all his time – he literally lives in his mother's basement. He was a – I think he did a semester or two at Boston University and then decided to kind of let – particularly in the aftermath of Unite the Right he wanted to do politics full time. 233

He said he was going to transfer to Auburn University, apparently to be kind of closer – to be in a more conservative area, because Auburn's in Alabama. And this was kind of right around the time of a Richard Spencer event in Auburn. But as far as I know that didn't happen. 234

I believe he is literally living in his parents' basement, where he has a studio with a green screen, and he is broadcasting his show five nights a week. And he was able to take – get money from the live streams for a while. From the [incomprehensible 42:05]. But as of about a week ago that got canceled, and so apparently – I don't know what his live stream show is going to be. But I did notice just hopping on today that he has deleted almost all of his videos. Except for about the last two weeks' worth. I wouldn't like to say that there is a – there's an archive of those anywhere, certainly. I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know if such thing existed. 235

Jack:

No, it's hard to think who would spend a huge amount of their time archiving... 236

Daniel:

[laughs] Who might... if you were a nazi, and you have your videos in a playlist, it turns out it's one command to just get them all. 237

Jack:

[chuckles] 238

Daniel:

I don't know if that information is useful at all, but... it's true. 239

And one of the things that a lot of these guys do when they do kind of speak about edgier material – a lot of the way that the Youtube live streamers work is, they don't want to get strikes on their channel when people flag things that they've said, that are hate speech, as hate speech. And so they will either immediately broadcast the live thing, then take it down and put it up on a secondary channel that isn't monetized, so they don't have to worry about it, or they'll put it up in some other place, or they'll just delete it immediately, and – it just – it was a live show and it's gone when it's gone. 240

It looks like Fuentes is now kind of doing – he's going to keep up like two weeks' worth of shows unless there's something else he's doing. I don't know. So right now he's got two weeks' worth of shows up. The episode 334 is The Globohomo Agenda. 241

[336:] We Don't Want Legal Immigrants. 242

[338:] What to Expect at the North Korea Summit. 243

These are just kind of recent shows he's got up there. And he does – basically he sits at a desk and talks into a camera by himself for an hour and a half. And then kind of takes streaming donations and reads people's comments. 244

He is a desperately, desperately lonely little boy. 245

You can tell. 246

Jack:

[chuckles] 247

Daniel:

There is one video that I really love from Nick Fuentes... and love is a complicated term here... 248

Jack:

Yeah. 249

Daniel:

On his Periscope, he did a – did one called... let's see what it's called... Nick Fuentes' Epic Thot Patrol. So Thot here is [spells out letters:] T H O T. In case you don't know, that's That Ho Over There, and it was originally one of these African American community slang terms. And it's gotten embraced by the far right as a – instead of it being sort of a term of endearment to some degree it becomes just kind of a nasty, like, look at the awful thots, how diseased and slutty et cetera they are. 250

Well, if you watch this video, which is not one of his – it's just a Periscope. He – you can, (a), this is like shot with his cellphone, so it literally just doing it live to Periscope. He's got a Google image search or, you know, some bunch of videos of, like, conventionally attractive right-wing women up on his screen. You can almost smell the dirty kleenex in this room. 251

Jack:

[laughs] 252

Daniel:

And he is epically resentful that they get more views that he does. And it's – he thinks it's because, like, oh, they show their tits et cetera. Look, what intellectualism have you brought to this? What new ideas do you have? It's literally thirty minutes of the most unhinged ranting against women that – I'm sorry I find it as funny as I do, but it's like this little puny intellectual pipsqueak, who at the time was like nineteen years old, who thinks he has anything of value to offer the world in this state, getting that upset about the fact that other people, who, for whatever – maybe it is because they're just more attractive or whatever – are getting more attention than he is. It's just – the schadenfreude is strong. 253

Jack:

[laughs] 254

Daniel:

I'm highly amused at poor Nicky Fuentes there. 255

Jack:

I think there probably is something to the idea that some of these right-wing women get, you know, so many views just because people like Nick Fuentes want to, uh, want to watch them and [incomprehensible 46:39] over them. That's probably, you know – in another context I'd be apologizing for denigrating the women, but let's face it, they're just as awful as the men in this subculture. 256

Daniel:

[incomprehensible 46:50] 257

Jack:

And they do – I mean I'm sure – some of them do knowingly, you know, weaponize their – why, I should say marketize – their conventional attractiveness. You know, these people are all pro capitalism. It's just the market, Nick, you know. 258

Daniel:

Well, Nick Fuentes will say, oh, I'm not in favor of capitalism. But he's really not in favor of the capitalism when it's Jewish, that's really the... 259

Jack:

Yeah. Well this is it. They are in favor in capitalism. They just don't realize it because they don't know what capitalism actually is. That's the distinction. 260

Daniel:

Exactly. I'm sorry we're kind of going back and forth between these two guys, but again, I just – I consider them one. I really want them to get back together and do a show together again, just to amuse me. 261

Jack:

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean... 262

Daniel:

Just to make my life more fun, you know. 263

Jack:

Yeah, you always do, when you're a fan of a comedy double act and they split up and go solo, you want them to get back together. Maybe they will, you know. For their twentieth anniversary or something, they'll do a reunion show. 264

Daniel:

[laughs] I hope these people aren't still relevant in twenty years. I would like them not be relevant in twenty months. Oh god. I'm really depressed now. 265

Jack:

[laughs] No, I mean, you know, comedians that last had a TV show twenty years still do that. They get their reunion get-togethers. They just do them in much smaller venues than they used to. That would be fine with me. 266

Daniel:

Considering that, you know, Fuentes is getting something like five, ten thousand views, you know, the twenty-years-later reunion might be held around a card table. I'd be perfectly okay with that. 267

Jack:

Yeah. 268

Daniel:

No issues on my end. 269

Back to Allsup for a minute here. We'll just cover this while we're at it. 270

Jack:

Yeah... I don't mind the flipping back and forth, because I'm thinking of this kind of just a tour of what's, what's amusing Daniel most any given moment. 271

Daniel:

I'm trying to – I try to keep these – these two figures are just so ridiculous. And again, there is a danger here because despite the fact that I look at Nick Fuentes and I think he's completely stupid on every level... 272

Jack:

Oh yes, I mean he's risible. 273

Daniel:

He's giving speeches at universities. He's got ten thousand people watching him on Youtube. This is not, you know – I want to highlight how stupid this is, I actively – I don't want people to go watch Nick Fuentes' channel. 274

There is someone doing the Lord's own work. I don't think they even realize it. But there is someone who is, by all appearances, a fan of Nick Fuentes, who is doing exactly the work that I need him to do. Because he's taking out the stupidest things that Nick Fuentes says and trimming them into little two-minute clips that you can just watch on Youtube. And then you don't have to watch all the rest of it. It's Nick Fuentes Clips. I put it in the show notes. Enjoy. 275

Jack:

[cackles] 276

Daniel:

[laughs] I want to highlight this one. I want to highlight this – I watched this like twenty times, I swear. It's called Nick Fuentes STUFFS LAB COAT IN LOCKER WITH FACTS. And everything after Nick Fuentes is like all uppercase. One of his Super Chat things asked him, like, Nick, do you think the Earth goes around the Sun? And he's like, what difference does it make, the Earth goes around the Sun, what does it matter, I'm going to get a Big Mac, whatever. 277

Jack:

Oh, he nicked that. He nicked that. That's nicked. That's in Sherlock Holmes. That's what happens in Sherlock Holmes. Dr Watson is astonished to discover that Sherlock Holmes doesn't know that the Earth goes around the Sun and Sherlock Holmes is, what does it matter? 278

Daniel:

Yeah, that's in, Study in... 279

Jack:

Study in Scarlet. First one. 280

Daniel:

Study in Scarlet, sorry. I had a Study in Pink in my head, I'm like what's the color, what's the fucking color. 281

Jack:

[laughs] 282

Daniel:

Oh man, that's a deep cut for the fans here but... 283

So he goes on to say, (a), he's a creationist. Nick Fuentes is a creationist, he's like, I don't know... 284

Jack:

[incredulous:] He's a creationist? 285

Daniel:

He's a creationist, he's a... 286

Jack:

[laughs] 287

Daniel:

By all indications he's six-day creationist, as near as I can tell. 288

Jack:

So I he like a – is he like a biblical literalist Christian? 289

Evangelical Christian? 290

Daniel:

He's a kind of a – he's a trad Catholic actually, so he's this... 291

Jack:

Oh come on, Catholics have accepted evolution! 292

Daniel:

Well, not if you're a pre-Vatican II Catholic apparently. 293

Jack:

[laughs] 294

Daniel:

He's this... 295

Jack:

[laughs] Oh I see! Vatican II are cucks! 296

Daniel:

[laughs] He's like, you know, the current Pope is a cuck, the whole thing. He's right up there with all that stuff. 297

Jack:

Oh well, I mean the current Pope's a communist, come on. 298

Daniel:

Although... very anti-gay, you got to... the Pope is a good... for a Pope, but, you know, certain things... 299

Jack:

I mean from their point of view, he's a communist that gets one thing right, I suppose. 300

Daniel:

[laughs] 301

No, he goes on to talk about, like, read the Bible, dummy, we're going to bash it into your head and you can stop thinking so hard about this stuff. He goes like right up to the edge there. Yeah, no, he's that guy. When asked, like, why do you believe in God, he's like, well you just got to read Thomas Aquinas. So what, can you summarize it? No, it's to complex, I can't describe it here. 302

Jack:

Ah. 303

Daniel:

Well, of course not. He claims to be like the 250 IQ big brain guy, I'm smarter than everybody around me, I'm always right about everything that's happening in the world. And he does that by hedging his bets on everything that he talks about. 304

He's a pretty silly man. But definitely – I put the STUFF LAB COAT IN LOCK WITH FACTS, I put that in the show notes, and... it's four minutes of your time. 305

Jack:

[chuckles] 306

Daniel:

It's worth it. It's worth that, I promise. 307

Jack:

I haven't seen this, but I'm definitely going to check this out after we finish. 308

Daniel:

[laughs] 309

If you feel up to it, please just put in like the first fifteen seconds, so you can listen to [incomprehensible 53:05] how stupid this kid is. Oh, god. 310

What else do we have from Fuentes... 311

Jack:

He was at CPAC this year. 312

Daniel:

Yeah, we can cover the – so, he went to CPAC. He didn't have a ticket to CPAC. But there's video of him standing outside... 313

Jack:

[laughs] standing outside 314

Daniel:

He's standing outside. 315

He just kind of showed up and this guy Ford Fischer, who kind of cover the far right – he covers a lot of the rallies and he's a, you know, really kind of solid on-the-ground journalist for this stuff. Some people have some issues with sort of – he's a little bit – he could do better not filming Antifascists' faces and that sort of thing. But he has a lot of really valuable stuff. He was at Unite the Right. He filmed a bunch of the footage you've seen from Unite the Right. The [incomprehensible 53:57] march, he shot a lot of that footage, so, you know, good on him for that. 316

He interviewed Nick Fuentes... so why are you outside? 317

[laughs] 318

Oh well, you know, I just thought I'd show up. I got a lot of friends here, so I'm really just – really just thought I'd hang out and see what's going to go on with them, after the conference. So it's really just more of a social gathering for me. Yeah right, Nick, you thought you could talk your way in and you are outside of the bounds of what is allowed at CPAC apparently. 319

Jack:

[laughs] Yeah, that's right. I remember – I think it was on the most recent episode of Chapo Trap House. They did a thing about CPAC and they said they wouldn't let Nick Fuentes in. Although they did let some other, equally dodgy people in. They let Laura Loomer in, for instance. 320

Daniel:

Well, you know, Laura Loomer is Jewish, so that's why she got to come in, you know. 321

Jack:

Oh yeah, of course, the globalists made a note, you know. 322

Daniel:

Laura Loomer appeared on Nick Fuentes' show, at least twice. Talking about Israel, of course. 323

Jack:

M hm. 324

Daniel:

Those clips don't exist any more unless, again, someone has an archive. 325

Jack:

But I – I don't know about Fuentes, but Allsup's anti-Israel, isn't he? 326

Daniel:

Oh yeah, no, they're viciously anti-Israel. I mean, they're anti-Israeli... like, having – they're anti-Israel affecting US politics. 327

Jack:

Oh, right. They buy into the Israel lobby controls the American government and starts wars thing. Okay. It's the neoconservatism is a Jewish plot thing. 328

Daniel:

Exactly. 329

Jack:

Right. 330

Daniel:

You know, video still up on Fuentes' channel – The Prophet Ilhan, Peace Be Upon Her is an episode. Because she as a black Muslim woman is allowed to ciriticize the Jews, whereas nice little white men with last names like Fuentes are not. Guess who else also has a video. Ilhan Omar Was Right About AIPAC, over there at James Allsup's channel. That one has a hundred and fifty one thousand views, so, you know, just that that as it lays. 331

Jack:

Hm. It's not Ilhan Omar's fault that they're... 332

Daniel:

No, not at all. Because, Omar... 333

Jack:

I just want to say that, because she's getting a lot of shit and she's doing some great stuff. 334

Daniel:

Oh no, no, I agree. And, you know, it's exactly the way this stuff gets used by all of these figures. Because they're all talking about this right now, so we might as well just throw it in here. 335

She is criticizing Israeli – you know, AIPAC lobbying efforts. She is criticizing the government of Israel and its apartheid policies. 336

She is not criticizing the Jews. 337

And even if you're sort of on the idea that some of the language she used was perhaps not the best – and I'm not going to take one side or the other on that – I think what she said was basically reasonable, but I'm not Jewish and I'm not going to – I'm not going to argue with you if you feel differently about that. 338

It is very obvious that Ilhan Omar is not herself anti-Semitic in this way. 339

There is criticism of a nation state and its policies. That is not criticism of the ethnic group – of an ethic group at large, which may or may not have anything to do with Israel ultimately. 340

So this is obviously vile, stupid, horrible racism that's masking itself as support for this woman just so they can attack their own political enemies. And... 341

Jack:

Yeah... yeah. 342

Daniel:

It's vile, disgusting stuff. 343

Jack:

...and peddle their own vile anti-Semitism. 344

Daniel:

Exactly. 345

Jack:

It's just shameless, cynical opportunism on their part. 346

Daniel:

And they get to then frame it as, well, this woman get to say these things because she's non-white, and this is ultimately the reason – 347

Jack:

Oh yeah. 348

Daniel:

The Jews have this anti-white agenda, which does not allow white people to comment on this. But because she's a woman and because she's Muslim, she is allowed to say these thing, because ultimately they don't think that she has – they, quote-unquote, in the parenthesis, don't think that she has an appropriate – a large enough amount of agency to really be able to do anything about this. And then, you know, down – the Jews are going to get her in line, you see, she's just young and stupid, you see. Go let her say it because she's not actually going to be [incomprehensible 58:10] about it, because she's not white, because we're the master race. 349

Jack:

Yeah. And also because white people are the real oppressed group, aren't they. 350

Daniel:

Exactly. 351

Jack:

The Jews are trying to put down the white... which is – that's a hilarious angle to take via this issue because you only have to look at what Ilhan Omar's been put through in response to statements she's made. 352

And again, I'm not going to derail it by going into the question whether her statements were perfect or anything. But, you know, I agree basically with the position you've said. 353

And you only have to look at the mountain of shit that's been thrown at her to see just how privileged a black Muslim woman is. It's ludicrous for them to take that angle. 354

Daniel:

And then this kind of comes back to the thing – they point to this issue and the fact that it is this sort of monolithic fight against her, and they say look at how powerful the Jews are. And it just becomes this whole thing. And... 355

Jack:

[incomprehensible 59:08] 356

Daniel:

This is about the American form policy engendered through empire. You know, like, Israel gets used by the American government as the justification for so much military adventurism. But they see it the exact opposite way. They think Israel is [laughs] controlling America when really it's like... 357

Jack:

Yeah. 358

Daniel:

America wants fucking access to the oil reserves and they're going to use Israel as an excuse to go fucking do that. That's just – that's my big-picture feeling at it. You can disagree disagree with that if you want, but... 359

Jack:

No no, I essentially agree. I was just going to say, you know, if you can do what they're doing there, you can take one issue and you can use it to prove, quote-unquote prove, anything you like. Including multiple propositions that are actually mutually exclusive or contradictory. Then you're obviously just a bullshit artist. 360

You're just a propagandist hack. 361

Daniel:

Exactly. And I mean, ultimately – and that's the danger of all this stuff – when we mentioned it last we [incomprehensible 1:00:09] It's ultimately just propaganda. 362

It's taking – I mean, Allsup: so many of his videos are – there's this site called Now This. And you've probably seen that on like your Facebook or Twitter feed, they do this sort of like feel-good, lefty-liberal kind of videos. A lot of look at how wonderful this trans person is for coming out an expressing themselves. And then Allsup would do a video, which I've put in the link, because it's just horrible – Gender Must Be DESTROYED. And what he does is, he takes video of this non-binary person, who doesn't look like a normal American because they're non-white and they have piercings and they have colored hair et cetera, and uses that as this monstrosity, this monstrous figure that – this it's what's coming for your children. [He] just doesn't say it in quite that explicit of terms, you know, but... 363

Jack:

Yeah, yeah. 364

Daniel:

He's like what about normal Americans, et cetera et cetera, you know, quote quote quote quote. 365

Jack:

Jesus. 366

Daniel:

It's a vile video and I want everyone to go watch this to see – because, he also pretty obviously sticks in, like, the Jews are doing this, but he does it in slightly coded way. But it's like so indicate of his process, because he basically just goes and trolls this Now This, finds a clip, and this is like – Now This is, it's like – I kind of second-rate Buzzfeed sort of thing. It's sort of like clickbaity feel-good stuff that – you sort of a three-minute video and – it's mostly fine. 367

Jack:

M hm. 368

Daniel:

They'll take like – whatever. Nobody takes this remotely seriously who's engaged in the issues. But like, oh, it's a nice little video and we'll share it, you know. He takes this as... 369

Jack:

Yeah, these people always take stuff like that as the definitive intellectual statement of the position of the entire left, don't they. 370

Daniel:

Well, it's like, you know, someone is trying explain it in a three-minute video, you know. Some issue, and it's some celebrity or whatever. 371

And they're not kind of giving things exactly [incomprehensible 1:02:10]. They're not countering these far-right talking points in the same way, or they slightly misspeak, or they make some kind of technical error, whatever. And so they jump on that and they use that a sort of a spin-off place for this rebuttal, which ultimately – I mean, they're arguing at strawmen, almost by definition, but also... 372

Jack:

Yeah. 373

Daniel:

[incomprehensible 1:02:31] you watch this video as if you watch a bunch of [incomprehensible 1:02:34] He brings up Now This. He has certain sources that he'll go to and then he'll use those as sort of – that's the definitive version of this, and I'm going to do that. And he did it with The Root for a long time. The Root's a lot better than Now This but he would selectively quote them out of context and do all kinds of bullshit stuff like that. 374

Again, he's very, very clever because he thinks that very few are actually going to go click on the things and see the original and kind of see it in context. This is why Allsup is disgusting, honestly, you know. 375

Jack:

Well yeah, and he's, you know, he's doing the same old thing, like the anti-SJW Youtube channels that have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of subscribers, and they make their money by picking on tiny little channels, you know, with people that have just started doing Youtube and are like, teenagers, or in their twenties. 376

And it's just – it's exactly the same as the ancient technique – whoever it is, you go in, like, disproving climate change by talking to the – finding the most naive college student in the crowd, and when they can't answer questions about CFCs or whatever, that disproves climate change. And it's – they know they're going to get away with it because they know that their audience aren't actually interested in a natural analysis or a discussion. This stuff is about chumming the water. 377

It's about feeding their audience's appetite for hate and bullying. That's all it's really about. They – like this trans thing, they find somebody that they think looks weird and then they use them as bait for their disgusting followers that just want to laugh and sneer at somebody. 378

It's just fucking playground bullying. 379

Daniel:

And, admittedly, you know, we're laughing at these guys. But I'm bringing facts and logic to this... [laughs] 380

Jack:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 381

Daniel:

I've got links here, alright? [laughs] I'm actively asking people to go check this out and see how silly this is. 382

Jack:

Isn't it sad now that just talking about backing with arguments with facts and – it sounds, you sound, you feel sort of self-conscious saying it because you sound like one of them. Because they're the ones saying this shit. Just by the fact they have nothing, nothing to back up their bullshit with. 383

Daniel:

Yeah, they just say facts and logic and suddenly... 384

Jack:

Exactly! 385

Daniel:

I mean its' just... 386

Jack:

You just make shit up and then you say evidence, and that's the same as having it. 387

Daniel:

I love – it's like Steven Crowder, like, there are only two genders, change my mind. And there' no way – you can't like, (a), you can imagine like an actual academic deciding, okay, I'm going to sit down – that's never going to go up on the channel, first of all. Like, it's just not going to happen. And (b), if I'm intransigent enough I can just refuse to believe whatever you give me. 388

Enoch has a – one of his debate tactics, which I haven't seen him do for a while, because doesn't he doesn't really debate anymore, he is ensconced in his little far-right bubble – but when he would debate people, one of the techniques he told people to use was, whenever you're confronted with some kind of piece of actual evidence that confronts vicious racism with, like, an argument, his response is to say, oh what, did some Jew tell you that? 389

Jack:

Yeah. That's one of the – it's sort of emblematic of why the love the whole anti-Semitic argument. Because it's just so – it's so completely – it's not even, I mean it is irrational, but it's more than that, it's anti-rational. 390

And that's the point of it. 391

Because it's based on nothing. It's just this fantasm. So it's an answer for everything. It's just this great big answer for everything. It's like in 1984, you know, the part of doublethink is described – the part of the cache of being an incredibly orthodox thinker is the ability to maintain the belief in something when the evidence against it is staring in the face. And that becomes laudable. That shows how great you are, that you can do that. And you see that all the time with these fucking people. And everybody knows – they know they're doing it, and the audience knows they're doing it. And it works. Because ultimately, this isn't about truth, this is about their – as I've said before, they're sitting in their own nappies, wallowing in it. 392

Daniel:

Well, it's about this – it's the difference between reason and evidence and belief – it's the difference between an actual argument and apologetics. You know, if you've studied the religious apologetics and you've studied the rhetorical strategies of that... so much of that is not – its' just built on, like, well, I believe this certain thing about the universe... God exists, you know, Christian trinity et cetera et cetera. And when you're confronted with someone who doesn't, ultimately the point of apologetics, the point of this sort of argumentation is about – at some point, my faith is more important to me than this other thing, and this faith that I have – I only need to be able to defend it so far. And so it's just enough to sort of bolster my own confidence in the thing I already believe... 393

Jack:

Yeah. 394

Daniel:

And this I don't want to pretend like that's only in this movement or that's only on the right. 395

Jack:

No, no. 396

Daniel:

It's certainly not. 397

Jack:

No, this is everywhere. There are some movements that are just this and nothing else. 398

Daniel:

But ultimately all of this taking the low-hanging fruit and responding to it in the most superficial way possible and parroting a bunch of double talk, and it's just – the whole, like, Table 43, Black Crime Data – I mean the fact that I can just repeat their talking points without thinking about it and I know exactly – like, I can click on one of Allsup's videos and go, oh, he's talking about this topic, and I can write down his references without even watching it half the time. 399

Jack:

Yeah. 400

Daniel:

The reason being because it's just this mechanical, you know – it's like a slot machine. Roll the dice and suddenly you get the canned response out. I mean, love that they call us NPCs, right? [laughs] 401

Jack:

Yeah. 402

Daniel:

And again, one of those – the Jew cries out as he strikes you. They call us NPCs as a way of deflecting from the fact that ultimately all they're providing you is the most basic, superficial kind of argumentation on every topic. It's... 403

Jack:

It's what we were saying before: whatever they accuse you of, they're doing it constantly. And again, going back to 1984 – that's actually in 1984. It's called duckspeak. And it's good. Like, you know, a party member that can learn to speak from the throat and not from the brain, that's laudable. That makes them really orthodox, a good party member. It's exactly what it is. 404

Daniel:

Exactly. 405

One more thing I just want to mention here because – our buddy James Allsup here is kind of an elected official and kind of not... 406

Jack:

Yes indeed! 407

Daniel:

So in his home state of Washington, there is this kind of hyperlocal, basically administrative position called a precinct committee officer, PCO. Now, this is sort of an intra-party kind of – you're basically just helping to run meetings, from everything I get. But you do have a – you have no kind of mandate, no real authority, but you can kind of influence things in your way, as a way of sort of – well, which kind of kind of candidate is getting selected for slightly higher offices, you know, that sort of thing. 408

So, one of the – again, one of the strategies that they've been saying is, you infiltrate your local Republican party and sort of subtly influence things your way. And if you're kind of the person in the room then you're the person that gets to make decisions. This is completely, I mean, you know, leftists do this the same, you know, on their local level. Socialists do – the DSA has kind of been infiltrating some of the Democratic groups, et cetera. Perfectly valid strategy in and of itself, alright. 409

So Allsup runs for this thing, basically unopposed, and he becomes a precinct committee officer. He was elected. Once it became known that he was actually an elected official, the national media, like the Huffington Post and the Daily Beast, wrote articles about it, the local Republicans hemmed and hawed, and – he's basically been – he gets to stay in office because it was a valid election et cetera, but they've stripped him of all his power. 410

Jack:

[chuckles] 411

Daniel:

And I'm just going to read from this piece from Newsweek here: 412

Once Allsup's true political motives became known, some local Republicans distanced themselves from him and sought to remove him from his PCO role. However, one local GOP leader, the chair of a neighboring county's Republican committee, said Allsup had been "label lynched" 413

in quotes 414

and looked to rehabilitate him in the eyes of locals. A compromise was eventually reached by those opposed to the alt-right activist to effectively render him toothless within the Washington State GOP establishment. In a meeting Saturday, the Whitman County Republican Central Committee ruled it could not remove the Charlottesville marcher's title because he had been elected to the post. However, the group unanimously voted to end his membership and privileges. Allsup will remain in his PCO post until the body's next election but without proper affiliation, he has no meaningful power in the committee. 415

So, they just stripped him of everything. Allsup did put out a video, which was entitled, I Was Kicked out of the GOP?!, question mark, exclamation point. You can watch this video, in which he poo-poos this whole idea. And he's like, well clearly I'm still – I was not actually ejected from the GOP, guys, like, I was just stripped of everything that made this thing worth me having, but, you know... 416

Jack:

[chuckles] 417

Daniel:

That's fine. 418

Jack:

I hope he doesn't complain about that, given that he's actually said himself that he's not in favor of democracy. 419

Daniel:

Right. No, he does – he does definitely have videos like that. We could go all day. We could just – we could do what they do to us, to Now This. I could play one of these videos, we could talk about it, and we just debunk it, you know, on sight. But... I'm done. [laughs] I'm done talking about these guys for now. 420

Jack:

What's the point, you know. [laughs] It's ridiculous on its face. 421

Daniel:

Part of the point of it is – and, I mean, that's a really interesting question, actually. Because so much of the point of that kind of thing is, (a), to sort of give your side an argument. Is to provide that sort of apologetics. Another thing is just to be entertaining. To sort of like mock the opposition. There is some value to that to some degree. 422

Jack:

Oh yes. 423

Daniel:

But there is also a – a filling of time that seems to be really important to a lot of this stuff. Allsup does, you know, ten, twenty minute videos. They're somewhere in that range. Pretty easy to watch. They're pretty impressively produced, you know. Again, Allsup is good at this. 424

Fuentes does like ninety-minute live streams talking to a camera. Some of these shows, I mean, especially when you get into these Youtube live stream shows – I mean, a lot of these things are like three and four hours long. I play them at, like, multi-speed, like as fast as I can possibly play them, and there's so much just wasted time and energy in all of these things. 425

And I'm aware we're talking on a podcast and this one is a little bit more informal than the others, but – you know, I'm trying to... 426

Jack:

We've done multi-hour podcasts as well. But at least we had the decency to do them about, you know, good stuff... like movies. [laughs] 427

Daniel:

[laughs] Right. I mean, I'm not saying there's not a value to that. I mean, there is sort of a hangout element to some of this. 428

On its face, that's perfectly fine. 429

But when there are multi – when there are very many content producers producing this stuff, all spreading a very similar message, and ultimately sort of all working in this community to sort of keep people ensconced in this bubble – that's sort of the danger of it. Because people just hang out in this – I mean, I could have spent my entire waking life absorbing this material. 430

Jack:

Hm. I really think that the point of it, isn't it. To a large extent anyway. It's to kind of create this vast blanket of content that you can kind of envelop people in, so that they get sealed into it. 431

Daniel:

Especially when you talk about these young guys you really do just kind of hang out online. I mean they go to school, they come home, they do homework or whatever and then they just kind of sit and watch Youtube... all day long. Or they sit and shitpost on Reddit or on 4chan or on Twitter or on Gab or whatever. And absorbing – having this kind of endless wellspring of material and having... 432

Jack:

[resigned:] Yeah. 433

Daniel:

You know, this guy guested on that show and so then you have to go watch that show. And then that other guy, and then maybe you find out you like that one, and so you start following that one. And then they go to the other thing. And then they talk about the other shows they've been on, and they talk about, oh, there's this thing. 434

I mean, the fact that like Allsup and Fuentes were fighting became a thing that was – people were arguing about Allsup and Fuentes fighting. 435

Jack:

Yeah. 436

Daniel:

There's always this – I was joking with someone else about this, you know – these people have like more drama than the Kardashians. And is this sort of – even for me, there's a little bit of an entertaining aspect to this. I mean, I take my pleasure... 437

Jack:

Sure! 438

Daniel:

...where I get it with this stuff, right. 439

Jack:

Yeah! 440

Daniel:

You know, when I said, it's kind of like Keeping Up with the KKK. It's just like [laughs] – you're just kind of following this interpersonal drama and it's – there is something to that, and there is something that – then you get – especially if you're on their side ideologically, you get to have opinions about it and then you get to go argue online about it, and you get to go – I mean, it's just, around and around and around you go, and it becomes this world, this media landscape. 441

Jack:

Hm. 442

Daniel:

And you're not paying attention to anything outside of it anymore. And suddenly the built-in assumptions that all these guys have just become the truism you live under. 443

Jack:

Yeah. 444

Daniel:

And that's the way it works. 445

Jack:

Yeah. We talked about this last week, you know, but... there you are. You're sealed in this bubble and, you know, they – James Allsup makes a joke that – about the Holocaust and about how it's a load of lies that there were gas chambers and – because you're sealed in this bubble and the only view you see of the outside world is through this sense, it just seems like, yeah, that must be right. 446

Daniel:

Yeah, Allsup doesn't talk about the Holocaust, but Fuentes sure does... 447

Jack:

There's something in that Kevin Logan video about Allsup making a joke about the – he says something sarcastic about – oh, imagine somebody lying about gas chambers. 448

Daniel:

Right. Right. No, no, I'm just saying, he usually stays well clear of something that explicit. At least in sort of his more recent material. I mean he has deleted all of his really old stuff from his Youtube channel. Or taken it private or whatever. 449

But there is a clip in that – Nick Fuentes' Clips channel, which – someone asks him, Nick, how do you bake six million cookies? And then he's like, well you can't possibly do that, there aren't enough ovens for that. And then where would you keep the ashes, I mean the cookie batter. Completely spreading that same old, like, Holocaust denial bullshit through this method of humor, which, you know – again, it's really nice because I missed that clip when it originally aired, but Nick Fuentes Clips has it right there, so you can go and watch this. 450

Jack:

[sarcastic:] There it is! 451

Daniel:

Just that little two minutes of it! And he thought it was really great. He thought it was really funny apparently. But, no, it's very, very useful to have this channel. I don't have to watch much Nick Fuentes these days. I just kind of check out the clips. 452

Jack:

It's fantastic. Nick Fuentes' greatest hits, curated for you by his biggest fan. [laughs] 453

Daniel:

Exactly. And it says something that this is the stuff that people clip out, you know. 454

Jack:

Yeah! 455

Daniel:

His fans are actively working against his interest by pulling out the edgiest, most kind of out-there stuff, the most kind of fun stuff. But it also makes Nick Fuentes – anybody paying attention to that then gets to see Nick Fuentes for what he really is, as opposed to sort of the more mainstreamish, conservative Republican that he wants to be. So... 456

Jack:

It shows you very clearly what they actually go to him for, doesn't it. 457

Daniel:

It does, exactly. 458

Alright, I think that's enough. I think... 459

Jack:

Okay! 460

There are a couple of things in the links that I don't know if we've touched upon. We didn't touch upon the American Renaissance thing. 461

Daniel:

Oh yeah. I just put some clips... if you do want to kind of check him out. Nick Fuentes did appear at American Renaissance. American Renaissance is one of the more, again, quote-unquote respectable white nationalist organizations, run by Jared Taylor. We'll cover them some... nah, we won't do them next week, but we'll cover them soon. And he did appear, in 2018, talking about how terrible baby boomers are and how the Generation Z is going to come and save America. 462

Jack:

[skeptical:] Hmmmm 463

Daniel:

It's a really kind of standard Nick Fuentes speech. It's not as amusing as some of the [ones] we've kind of covered from here. And I'm glad you mentioned it because he and James Allsup will be appearing again at American Renaissance 2019. So I really hope that they go head to head on this. I'm really hoping they snipe at each other in their speeches. That would be really amusing to me. 464

Jack:

Yeah, that would be great. Go for it, guys. 465

Battle of the Titans. [laughs] 466

Daniel:

[laughs] 467

Jack:

Okay. So, well, we've covered those two nasty little pipsqueaks. 468

Daniel:

Yeah, and now we don't have to do it again. 469

Sorry anybody kind of looking for the slightly headier version of this episode that we were going to do. This was – I prepped for this quickly and I thought we needed a break after the reading I did last week. We don't need more of that every week. 470

Jack:

Episode 9 was a bit heavy. It's been nice to have a slightly lighter-hearted one, even though the guys we have been talking about are despicable, vile little shits... 471

Daniel:

Absolutely. 472

Jack:

...who believe just utterly reprehensible, evil things. 473

But luckily for us they do it while being ludicrous, slimy little ticks that you can laugh at. 474

Daniel:

Exactly. 475

Jack:

Yeah. So that was... 476

Daniel:

We should highlight our stuff. 477

Jack:

We should, yeah. I feel better about plugging it because it was a bit less dark this time, so I feel [laughs] able to plug [laughs] 478

Daniel:

[chuckles] 479

Jack:

You go first, Daniel. You plug first. 480

Daniel:

Sure. You can find me on Twitter at @danieleharper. 481

I do have a Patreon. I believe it's patreon dot com slash danielharper. You can give me a couple bucks there. 482

I haven't updated – I don't really put anything there, it's really just encourage me to keep doing this. So if you do – we do have – I do have costs associated with this, in terms of – I do pay for things that I need in order to keep paying attention to this. Again, I don't give these people money, but I do have various sort of things that I do pay for to make this happen. 483

And Jack is paying for the podcast hosting for this podcast, so... he won't say this, but I'm going to say this: if you are going to donate to one of us, please donate to him first because he is paying the podcast hosting fees here. 484

Jack:

And you can find me on Twitter at @_jack_graham_. You can find my Patreon at... Daniel won't say this but I'll say it: Daniel is the one who does all the work and the research for this podcast wouldn't have without him. So if you're going to donate to one of our Patreons, donate to his, not mine. 485

If you want to read my stuff – I do write stuff, I have a blog called Shabogan Graffiti. The best way to find it is probably [to] go to my twitter and go to the link in the pinned tweet. And that's part of Eruditorum Press. And I write about – well, I don't write much these days, because I'm sort of taking a bit of a break from regular blogging, but you can kind a back catalog of stuff. It started as a Doctor Who blog I'm very remorseful to have to tell you. But – no, I'm not. I love Doctor Who. But I've written about lots of stuff, including politics and history and other media. So if you fancy that, give me a check out. 486

And we also – Daniel and I have done lots of podcasts together. We have – we're part of the Wrong With Authority podcast umbrella, which has a whole series of sort of strands – including Wrong With Authority itself, which is about movies about history and the history they're about. Generally about how full of shit they are. And other things, like commentaries on Eighties movies that are a lot of fun, and stuff like that. So yeah, check out Wrong With Authority if you like hearing us talk to each other. Because we've done a fair bit of that. 487

Daniel:

Yeah, it's almost like this is sort of a culmination of a several-year friendship of just – talking publicly for the amusement of people. 488

Jack:

Well.. yeah, well, you know, every single conversation I have with Daniel, he manages to work it round to nazis. So I thought, why not just make the podcast about the nazis. Cut out the middle step, you know. 489

Daniel:

Yeah... eventually I get to like actually write the book and then I – we can close the book on this whole thing, and then I can – I can move on to think about other things. But right now, yeah, no, unfortunately... 490

Jack:

Yeah. 491

Daniel:

It's a pressing concern. 492

Jack:

It is. Write the book so we can close it. 493

Yeah, the – one bit of housekeeping. I'm not going – I know I said I was going to, but I'm not actually going to continue to put these on Youtube. [There] doesn't seem to be much point. It's a bit of a time-consuming, fiddly job and I'm behind with it and we're not getting very many views on Youtube. So I'm not going to bother doing that anymore. But we are on iTunes. I'm going to investigate getting us onto other platforms. 494

Yeah, before we go – Daniel, what's our next episode going to be? 495

Daniel:

Oh god. Um, let's plan on doing... 496

Jack:

Or just what it – what are we planning on it being, you know. 497

No guarantee, obviously. 498

Daniel:

I'm going to try to do the one I was planning for this week. I should have a little bit more time next week to do the movementartian - vanguardist split, which is kind of name that doesn't – it's sort of the name I gave to it. We'll talk about it next time. But it's kind of a broad history of like sixty years of white nationalism in the United States, and this really important division between the different strands that needs to be highlighted and doesn't get enough highlight. So, yeah. So we're going to be dealing with that next week. 499

Jack:

Good. Okay. Well, see you then. 500